Religion and Literature

March 2, 2008, 11:08 AM

OK, here's the thing.
I hate religion, but not religious people. I think the doctrines/strictures/whatever etc. of any religion are hilarious and stupid, but if you follow them, you will bare no hostility from me.
The only times religion will bare my hostility, is when they try to impose their views on others.
Especially in books.
Books are my haven, they're where I escape to when I'm annoyed, tired, sad, upset etc.
I love books.
So when Religion try to get books banned, it gives me the complete shits, as I think they should just leave books alone.
I.e. Harry Potter, The Northern Lights etc.
But, and I know this is going to sound bias, it doesn't work the other way around. Literature, and in particular the ones that religion target are fiction. Made Up. So Religion should get their facts straight and not think some awesome book about a girl and her ability to read a "truth-measure" and the end message of "lets kill God" is evil. Its a freakin' book!
Damn it!
And when they try to impose on other people.
I.e. Trying to get it banned in cinemas, schools etc.
Its called Freedom of Speech people.
I don't know about you Americans, but it shits me over here in Australia when they do that.

March 2, 2008, 3:17 PM

Before I start, I wonder if somebody could move this to the Religious Debate section. It seems to me to be more apropriate there

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Originally Posted by Marilith

So when Religion try to get books banned, it gives me the complete shits, as I think they should just leave books alone.
I.e. Harry Potter, The Northern Lights etc.
But, and I know this is going to sound bias, it doesn't work the other way around. Literature, and in particular the ones that religion target are fiction. Made Up. So Religion should get their facts straight and not think some awesome book about a girl and her ability to read a "truth-measure" and the end message of "lets kill God" is evil. Its a freakin' book!

What is very entertaining is that the fictitious are banning the fiction. How so? The Bible is, to me, little more than historical fiction. It illustrates points and thoughts that are in no way possible. Jesus was historical, Moses was historical, it's POSSIBLE that the great flood is historical, but each of the stories behind these histories is FAR too surreal to be real. They are too exaggerated. So, how do they react to fiction other than their own? They condemn it, of course, especially if the fiction goes against some of their core teachings.

You probably know that witches and wizards, or those who were accused of being, were condemned to death for heresy and being servants of Satan in the Medieval ages. Do you honestly think that the Catholics gave up that notion after all these centuries? The Christian religions are obviously going to put a veto on books like Harry Potter; they place normalcy on the surreal, they place commonness on the impossible; they do, in short, what only God can do. Let us not forget that Dumbledore, easily one of the most popular characters in the Potter series, is gay. I can guarantee you that once the Christian gay-haters heard that, Harry Potter got banned for eternity. It's called intolerance, something religion is notorious for.

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Its called Freedom of Speech people.
I don't know about you Americans, but it shits me over here in Australia when they do that.

Which is where religions are hypocrites. They claim the right to speak out for their religion, yet they condemn it when other people do it to them. Where is the logic and equity here, people? You want to advertise your religion, be my guest, but when somebody does it to you, piss off and let them do it. If you claim that right to advertise, and proselytise more often than not, then piss off and let others do it too.

March 2, 2008, 3:46 PM

Beforehand, I would like to firmly state that I, in now way, am putting in question the existence of God, (mainly because the theory of being created out of an explosion sounds way more retarded) regardless of what I say after this sentence. As a religious person, I do believe in most of what the Bible says, not all, because I believe that the Bible was edited years ago when the Catholic Church had this Ecumenical Council to say what was good, what was weird, and what shouldn't be said in the Bible, if my memory doesn't fails me (yay Humanities class proved to be useful at last). So, given to the fact that, regardless of being written by mortals inspired by God, the Bible was edited by others, and sometimes it was misunderstood when translated from the original books, tomes, letters, etc.

Religion was born out of the necessity of the humankind to believe we have a greater purpose aside from birth, life, and death. Humanity required to believe in something, fearing the fact that death is indeed the termination of all biological functions of the body, the memories, the very existence of a human being dies. Humanity needed to have a hope of overcoming death, the resting place of the dead were we "sleep" through all eternity known to Hebrews as Sheol (Seo'l), which is basically what we commonly call "the underworld", land of the dead, the "Hades" of greek mythology, in other words the same "hell" with different names. Humans had always feared the fact that they can't exist forever because the desire for "immortality" was placed deep within our mortal hearts, hence all of these legends, myths, tales, histories, et cetera.

Now we come to the concussion that most creations of human origin bear the curse of imperfection known as "sin" (now I realize that FFX seems to be the Final Fantasy game with the most religious influence...), therefore it is corruptible and will be flawed. Religious Intolerance is one of those flaws, but they abide to their rules and sometimes they just take it to drastic methods of "correction" to attempt to save these "infidels". To Religion, homosexuality, witchcraft and wizardry, satanism, and any thing that is against the religion is thus condemned, giving the fanatics (people who take religion way to seriously) the excuse to murder, butcher, torture and commit many horrible crimes that are supposed to be condemned by the Church, again, now we have hypocrisy. My religious beliefs state that those who break the laws put their souls in risk, but, I never judge or take justice in my hands for it is something that is not my job to do, and also my own flawed mortality and imperfection makes me unworthy of doing it, I am also a sinner just like each and every one of us in this community, in this world. I just believe concerning these issues; "is their life, their business, their happiness and problems. Let them be and allow them to use the free will we were granted on the day of our birth. I am NO ONE to judge them."

Sadly, not all of us are willing to allow them use their free will, and take this issues to the last consequences. Remember the Ku Klux Clan? They hunted African American, religious people, and gays, and basically anyone who they considered "unworthy", and they were one of the cruelest organizations to have ever existed (and they still exist by the way).

My point, no matter what we do humans always tend to screw everything, turning everything we can into an excuse to have wars, massacres, and senseless genocides.

Anyhow, I am tired, I'll type more later so discuss.

March 2, 2008, 7:06 PM

I have heard of such things, and it is ridiculous, although these people are willfully ignorant of the fact that their same book says the Earth is flat or 6000 years old when it clearly isn't, and are throwing stones from a glass house when they accuse fiction stories for being "offensive" just because it says things they don't like to hear. Granted, not every story you read is necessarily something you want to hear, and if it isn't, people shouldn't blame the author for writing what he/she did, nor should they tell other people what they can and can't read. Just because you don't like to hear it doesn't mean other people don't want to hear it, nor is it considered "evil" because "evil" is too subjective. If you think it's "evil" for your religion, then fine, go ahead and inform everyone in your religious community, and maybe discourage them from reading it, and while you're at it, explain why you think it's so bad, but there is one thing that you cannot do, which is to force people to read or not read the things you want (or don't want) them to read. Of course, if these people are to be so naive enough to think that banning certain books will force people to be unable to read them, they should reconsider--most of us are able to get our books through other people, or learn about them from people on the Internet, and buy them off of E-bay, Amazon or the Chapters website, and some texts might just be on the Internet anyways.

If humanity isn't amusing me with it's screw ups, it's sickening me.

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Originally Posted by Julius Argexis

Religion was born out of the necessity of the humankind to believe we have a greater purpose aside from birth, life, and death. Humanity required to believe in something, fearing the fact that death is indeed the termination of all biological functions of the body, the memories, the very existence of a human being dies. Humanity needed to have a hope of overcoming death, the resting place of the dead were we "sleep" through all eternity known to Hebrews as Sheol (Seo'l), which is basically what we commonly call "the underworld", land of the dead, the "Hades" of greek mythology, in other words the same "hell" with different names. Humans had always feared the fact that they can't exist forever because the desire for "immortality" was placed deep within our mortal hearts, hence all of these legends, myths, tales, histories, et cetera.

This is what I've never been able to understand. It simply just isn't rational.

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Now we come to the concussion that most creations of human origin bear the curse of imperfection known as "sin" (now I realize that FFX seems to be the Final Fantasy game with the most religious influence...), therefore it is corruptible and will be flawed. Religious Intolerance is one of those flaws, but they abide to their rules and sometimes they just take it to drastic methods of "correction" to attempt to save these "infidels". To Religion, homosexuality, witchcraft and wizardry, satanism, and any thing that is against the religion is thus condemned, giving the fanatics (people who take religion way to seriously) the excuse to murder, butcher, torture and commit many horrible crimes that are supposed to be condemned by the Church, again, now we have hypocrisy. My religious beliefs state that those who break the laws put their souls in risk, but, I never judge or take justice in my hands for it is something that is not my job to do, and also my own flawed mortality and imperfection makes me unworthy of doing it, I am also a sinner just like each and every one of us in this community, in this world. I just believe concerning these issues; "is their life, their business, their happiness and problems. Let them be and allow them to use the free will we were granted on the day of our birth. I am NO ONE to judge them."

It's funny how the bible actually expects you to prosecute and torture these people for not believing the same things you do, and therefore, expect you to judge these people. Contradictory, isn't it?

March 2, 2008, 7:21 PM

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Originally Posted by Angelus-Mortis

It's funny how the bible actually expects you to prosecute and torture these people for not believing the same things you do, and therefore, expect you to judge these people. Contradictory, isn't it?

Yes, but most of our creations and beliefs are quite contradictory as well, hence why our civilization is so flawed. Humans fears what they can't understand, and everything that is considered as different to them is either considered as "heretics" or "evil". This is the perfect chance to quote the great Albert Einstein: "Only two things are infinite-the universe and human stupidity"

March 2, 2008, 8:31 PM

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Originally Posted by Angelus-Mortis

It's funny how the bible actually expects you to prosecute and torture these people for not believing the same things you do, and therefore, expect you to judge these people. Contradictory, isn't it?

Yeah, the OLD TESTAMENT. Which is, as the name might imply, old. Who actually regards the old testament as religious doctrine again? Oh that's right, the Jews. Last time I checked, I didn't have any Jews banging down my door, eager to torture me into converting. In fact, did they EVER do that? Usually they were the ones getting persecuted. Anywho, now to the New Testament. Remember Jesus, the guy who is the centerpiece of Christianity? Let's see what he has to say about torturing and converting...

“[The decision] must be answered from deep within the conscience of the individual involved, ... Those who seek counsel from the church on this subject are encouraged to review the advantages and disadvantages of doing so, to implore the Lord for inspiration and guidance, and then to take the course of action which would give them a feeling of peace and comfort.”

“Love the Lord your God with all your passion and prayer and intelligence. Love others as well as you love yourself.”

"Blessed are the Merciful, for they shall obtain mercy."

"Love one another"

...Wow, doesn't that guy sound like the biggest war-mongering douchebag? The New Testament is just FILLED with hatred towards others, don't you think?

I have just as many issues with the Bible as the next person-- namely when it comes to evolution-- but please, it is not just filled with hatred and violence.

March 2, 2008, 9:08 PM

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Originally Posted by Erythritol

Yeah, the OLD TESTAMENT. Which is, as the name might imply, old. Who actually regards the old testament as religious doctrine again? Oh that's right, the Jews. Last time I checked, I didn't have any Jews banging down my door, eager to torture me into converting. In fact, did they EVER do that? Usually they were the ones getting persecuted. Anywho, now to the New Testament. Remember Jesus, the guy who is the centerpiece of Christianity? Let's see what he has to say about torturing and converting...

That is your opinion if you choose to ignore the Old Testament, but there is nothing in the New Testament that says to ignore it. Not even Jesus condones it. If you can find such a passage, I'd like to see where he says that, and if he did, it would contradict something else he said. Furthermore, since you actively make the choice to ignore the Old Testament and not reading the bible as a whole, you are exerting your own judgment onto the bible, and in doing so, you make the entire thing look bad. A good book on its own needs no cherry picking.

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“[The decision] must be answered from deep within the conscience of the individual involved, ... Those who seek counsel from the church on this subject are encouraged to review the advantages and disadvantages of doing so, to implore the Lord for inspiration and guidance, and then to take the course of action which would give them a feeling of peace and comfort.”

“Love the Lord your God with all your passion and prayer and intelligence. Love others as well as you love yourself.”

"Blessed are the Merciful, for they shall obtain mercy."

"Love one another"

...Wow, doesn't that guy sound like the biggest war-mongering douchebag? The New Testament is just FILLED with hatred towards others, don't you think?

Certain people think this all justifies the horrors and violence told in the Old Testament, but that's only if you take the New Testament on its own, but I guess I've already made that point. Even if you were to ignore the Old Testament and suggest that because it's "invalid", that there should be no contradictions between Jesus being loving, and not telling us to torture or kill others not of the same religion. Really? I don't think so.

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Originally Posted by Matthew 10:34 - 35

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -
36a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'"

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Originally Posted by Matthew 15:4 - 7

For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.' But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,' 6he is not to 'honor his father' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.

(In other words, he's not saying anything different from what's already been established from the Old Testament.)

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Originally Posted by Luke 12:47

"That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows."

None of this sounds particularly loving, nor is it comforting--nor would today's societies and standards accept this kind of behavior. It is obsolete, and it is only by cherry picking that you even give Jesus any credit for being "loving", when in fact, he does not admit to existing for the sake of peace. If I wanted to learn of someone who did preach loving others in all sincerity, I would not want such a person to contradict himself. That would be a hypocrite.

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I have just as many issues with the Bible as the next person-- namely when it comes to evolution-- but please, it is not just filled with hatred and violence.

The fact that it speaks of loving humanity when it advocates this kind of violence and intolerance as well is a contradiction, and is inconsistent.

March 3, 2008, 12:36 AM

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