Our Design

May 10, 2007, 1:34 AM

Do you believe that we are all part of a universal design, a perfect design? An intelligent design?
Do you believe in the Watchmaker Theory aspect of this?

The watchmaker analogy consists of the comparison of some natural phenomenon to a watch. Typically, the analogy is presented as a prelude to the teleological argument and is generally presented as:

If you look at a watch, you can easily tell that it was designed and built by an intelligent watchmaker.
Similarly, if you look at some natural phenomenon X (a particular organ or organism, the structure of the solar system, life, the entire universe) you can easily tell that it was designed and built by an intelligent creator/designer.

Assuming that this is true, does the theory above prove the existence of god? I'm waiting on your posts for this.

May 12, 2007, 2:45 AM

No, I don't subscribe to the watchmaker theory. If one looks at how vast the universe is, then the chances of us being here, (LOL, even a watch!) are not only plausable, they are probable. The only reason we think its so amazing is that we are the ones that ARE here. Its like the lottery, if we won we would think "Oh my god, thats outstanding luck!" But of course, we wont win the lottery.. but somebody will. I hope you get that analogy.

May 12, 2007, 3:02 AM

Oh, I love the intellect that flows through these forums, a refreshing change for me.

I've been thinking about this for years, my hypothesis is ever-changing, I sometimes think that there was nothing but blackness, then suddenly something came into being out of nowhere, and started it all, but what, and how? My other theory is that there was nothing but darkness, but then the darkness spawned something that started everything, That one was almost the same as my other theory, because I can't think that far outside the box, no matter how hard I try. It'll always just end at ''But what came before that? What was there at the beginning?''

May 12, 2007, 3:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Guv'na

Oh, I love the intellect that flows through these forums, a refreshing change for me.

I feel the same way.

It's obviously impossible to find out what truly created us, and yes the watchmaker theory is a theory that was hypothesized to help us rethink our existence. It's a theory that was used to provide an explanation to our never ending desire to find out the origins of our existence of our life on planet Earth.

It's an interesting theory too, as it naturally rhetorical but actually makes some sense if you actually subscribe to it, or believe in religious explanations.

May 12, 2007, 4:19 AM

Quote:

Do you believe that we are all part of a universal design, a perfect design? An intelligent design?

No, I do not believe in Intelligent Design. I've stated my reasonings before in the "Do You Believe in God" thread, so I won't bore you guys with re-iteration. Simply put: I see no necessity for Intelligent Design. I concern myself with how I exist not why I exist. Knowing the why will not change the how.

Quote:

It'll always just end at ''But what came before that? What was there at the beginning?''

The answer to "but what came before that" is: everything & nothing ad infinitum. The universe is birthed (The Big Bang), then it grows & expands, then it collapses (The Big Crunch). The massive energy created when the universe collapses thus births another universe (The Big Bang).

However, you have to understand that space-time begins with The Big Bang. Because of that one cannot really say, "this universe is present after the last one" because the two are not temporally related; they are outside of one another. There is no beginning, & because there is no beginning there is no end.

I know that's confusing. Hell, I know I was pretty confused when I first studied it, but you should really read up on it. Even if you don't agree with the theory, it's still rather interesting.

If you look around, everything occurs in cycles - life, death, rebirth. I believe this too is true of our universe. We consider our existence & the existence of our universe to be a mathematical improbabilty; however, I honestly don't believe this to be true. Sure, this current universe has a predictable age & within that time-frame this all certainly looks to be improbable; however, the totality of existence does not have a predictable age - it is outside of time-space. Given infinity, the chances of this happening in one or more universes is highly probable, right? Of course.

I'm rambling again. :(

Quote:

It's obviously impossible to find out what truly created us

Of course. It truly changes nothing; however, it is really fascinating to think about.

Quote:

It's a theory that was used to provide an explanation to our never ending desire to find out the origins of our existence of our life on planet Earth.

Hmm... You know what I've always found to be a truly interesting topic: Why do we desire to know our origins so badly? It's consumed people for centuries. But why?

May 12, 2007, 5:07 AM

It's because we desire, deep down, without admitting, to know everything in the universe.
Why are we interested in knowing the future?
Why are we interested in conspiracy theories?
It's all the same thing.

Sad that that doesn't apply to studying history though. =(
I'm the only person in my school that actually likes to know literally everything --- including my history.

May 12, 2007, 10:18 PM

I do believe in intelligent design

I just think that there are way to many coincidences for there not to be.

May 12, 2007, 10:28 PM

Nice wikipedia copy-age.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warbourne

The watchmaker analogy consists of the comparison of some natural phenomenon to a watch. Typically, the analogy is presented as a prelude to the teleological argument and is generally presented as:

If you look at a watch, you can easily tell that it was designed and built by an intelligent watchmaker.
Similarly, if you look at some natural phenomenon X (a particular organ or organism, the structure of the solar system, life, the entire universe) you can easily tell that it was designed and built by an intelligent creator/designer.

Assuming that this is true, does the theory above prove the existence of god? I'm waiting on your posts for this.

I am going mostly by your last answer. And the answer to that is, no.

Unlike watches, we evolved (I am taking this standpoint). Therefore, your whole idea is skewed. If watches evolved, then sure, we are part of an intelligent design. However, they were created and thus they did not evolve.You can, on the other hand, argue that watches evolved over time. From massive to small. This still does not agree with the human evolution. For the watch idea was always there, but they just tinkered with the size and such.

Now I know someone will post this:

Quote:

Yea, but tinkering with the watches is the same as evolving. We were cells and then tinkered with to become who we are today.

Not true. We adapted. Watches didn't adapt.

Now, there's always the chance that there is God. Or in my views, a force that creates life/matter that we return to after we die. Its just that this "Design theory" can easily be disproved.

May 14, 2007, 1:04 AM

Stryfe. I think you are confusing Evolution with natural selection, and neither of them apply to watches!

Also, the watchmaker theory is perfectly valid, its been around for years.

I studied it in Philosphy at Uni. Whether it is true or not? Well, I dont think so.

May 14, 2007, 7:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimoire Valentine

Stryfe. I think you are confusing Evolution with natural selection, and neither of them apply to watches!

Also, the watchmaker theory is perfectly valid, its been around for years.

I am not confusing them, but merely combining them to disprove the watchmaker theory.