Does God Hate Bisexuals and Homosexuals? - Page 8

July 22, 2008, 1:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auronlu

δ Kuja Ω -- saying that you have to obey ALL the Old Testament also means you have to obey the laws about owning slaves, about killing your children and wife, about not eating pork, about keeping kosher, about wearing certain types of fabric, about using different plates for dishes using milk products and those with meat... there's tons and TONS of rules in the Mosaic Code that only the most orthodox Jews still follow.

All Christians are selectively chucking out most of the rules of the Old Testament; I don't know ANY Christian that follows them or thinks they're necessary... I'm sure you don't keep all the laws of the Mosaic code, do you?

My family doesn't, and we're a mix of Jews and Methodists.

In fact, that's what Jesus was saying -- those nitpicky rules didn't make you holy; what was important could be boiled down to loving your neighbor and treating people with respect, even people like prostitutes.

He did advocate upholding the Ten Commandments, however; they're the basics of the basics. But they don't have anything to say about homosexuality or bisexuality.

Regarding the story about Sodom and Gomorrah, it's condemning the people of the city for being promiscuous... and mainly for being wicked enough to demand the rape of guests. In the ancient world, the sanctity of guests was paramount. The Odyssey is one of many stories where abuse of hospitality, of guests, was a terrible crime. There were no hotels and precious little law enforcement, so travel and commerce relied entirely on the rule that you received visitors with hospitality. It's not surprising that the Bible has a story about the violation of the guest/host custom -- most of the cultures of the world have stories about that, and in all those stories, the ogre/bad hosts get what's coming to them for violating that cardinal rule of decency. The homosexuality aspect of the story is really rather irrelevant; the point was that guests were being threatened.

First of all, you should read what I say before going on a ridicolous pointless rant, I'm somewhat annoyed you posted this.

I was asking Vegeta, aka Meta Knight about that particular scripture in the Old Testament, no where did I say anytihng about following it word for word.

Honestly I question why you posted this ridicolous, and pointless bit of information. I am not christian, nor I condemn Homosexuality.

On a side note I want to capitalize on what Karl said.

The question do we hate homosexuals is an unanswerable one.

The bible wasn't written by god, it is Gods word interpretted by man, as such its not gods word, its mans word. As such we can't truly just say "zomg it says it right here god hates homos!".

Now the people who say that god can't possibly hate homos because to them it doesn't make sense are also wrong. We don't even know if God is real, as he is more of a figure of faith. As such we don't know. Some people also criticize mormons, or other faiths for condemning homosexuality, as such you guys are no different from them. Your basically saying its bad to be part of that faith.

With that said, lol about the anal sex comment. Before it was linked with homosexuality or with porn, it was a form of contraception. It is still practiced that way in many parts of Europe(or so I hear o.O).

Again I have no idea why you posted all that factual yet useless bit of information. Judas please explain your treachary. I am a proud philophical nontheist, and you sir are a clueless skeptic who had no right saying this, as it didn't apply to me.

You have some explaining to do, If this is a touchy subject for you, and your passionate debating about it, guess what dude? Thats fine, but read what other people have to say before speaking out of your ass. If your ready to say "sorry I didn't read what you said" I accept =)

- Kuja

July 22, 2008, 1:26 PM

lol i laugh at that ( in a non offensive way) thank you for making my day

now i just want to point out that generally nowdays homosexuality is accepted by religious biblical peoples ( i cant be botherd findin the correct terms) and i know christian catholic whatever people who are freinds with a homosexual that i absolutley hate

now im not a homophobe my father ha some freinds who are homos that i get along with they aint freaky people

if your wandering why i hate this homo

1) he stalked me and my freind
2) he googled me and my freind
3) threatened 2 rape me
4 ) threatened to rape some of my freinds
5) hes a freak altogeather.

now if anyone disagrees then please i welcome a chalange

July 24, 2008, 8:59 AM

Kuja, you called my post a "ridiculous and pointless rant."

Perhaps it was ridiculous, and perhaps it was largely pointless -- I'm sure many of my students have thought as much of my lectures! But I assure you, while the internet sometimes obscures tone, and while I tend to be as longwinded as Cicero, it wasn't a rant.

I admit, I am mildly taken aback by your calling me "treacherous" and "Judas." That is very strong language, accusing someone of being a backstabbing, greedy coward who would have friends killed for twenty bucks. Or worse. Judas is one of the most appalling figures of mythology, and I am startled that my offering a few thoughts about the thread topic incensed you so much that you called me that, and several other things besides.

Well, well, the internet is, again, a poor medium of communication, so I'll assume misunderstanding. However, you'll have to pardon me if I don't apologize, since I don't think it's really that treacherous, offensive, and heinous for me to enter into a discussion and offer a few crumbs of thought.

I was responding generally to the discussion that had gone before, and specifically to your post here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by δ Kuja Ω

[i][font=Arial Black][size=3]
[i][font=Arial Black][size=3][color=blue]No offense dude, but Vegeta is right. The bible is the damn bible. What difference does it make when the laws were made, your basically saying that the Ten Commandments, which God gave to Moses in Exodus isn't valid because it was made before Jesus's time.

I was pointing out that while "the Bible is the Bible," as you say (you'll have to pardon me if I don't "damn" it), that doesn't mean all parts of it are regarded and weighted equally. Maybe that's exactly what you meant, but by saying it that way, it sounded as if you were bringing up the common literalist argument that one can't pick and choose which parts of the Bible to follow or to ditch.

Other parts of my post were addressed more to the discussion at large, and I'm sorry if my addressing you over that first point led you to think that my scholarly blatherings were a rant aimed in your direction. No. I was commenting on the discussion at large, and (I am afraid) too lazy to go back through and quote ALL the posts that had stirred me to respond.

I was trying to make two points, which your post in particular but also several others had triggered as I was skimming through the thread:

1. Many Christians who say that homosexuality is condemned in the Bible point to the proscriptions against it in the Mosaic Code chapters of the OT, where Jewish Law is laid out. I was pointing out that this argument is inconsistent, since many other parts of the same code are rejected by Christians.

That doesn't tell us what God thinks of all this (if there is one), but it does address what many Christians think.

2. Earlier in this thread there was a discussion of the Sodom and Gomorrah episode, which is a Biblical fable that many Christians interpret as proof that God hates homosexuals (which is the topic of this thread). This episode was a topic of discussion in a Biblical Studies seminar I attended last year, and that seminar had given me a fresh perspective on which to view that fable and the Old Testament in general. The social context of the Bible tends to be ignored in favor of moral and religious interpretation. But viewed from its social and historical context, that fable's thrust is not so much that God hates homosexuals as it is proof that God hates people who violate the guest-host relationship.

That argument may strike you as ridiculous, but I don't see that it's altogether pointless, since it addresses the point of the thread.

Beh. Now I have to get back to work. If I sound a little stuffy right now, I do apologize -- I've just spent most of the day in the throes of dissertation research, and even when I try to take a break I sound like the articles I've been reading.

July 24, 2008, 9:20 AM

I'm agnostic, and even I can see that everyone is only talking about the Christian and Jewish God. Technically, they are the Muslim GODS and the Hindu GODS, so there is no such thing as 1 god.

Therefore, there is no way of knowing which God we want to know about. And it doesn't matter if God hates homo- and bi-sexuals, because we're going to hell anyway, on account of the fact that more than 1 religion says "If you aren't part of our religion, you will go to hell", and we can't be part of more than 1 at a time.

Prepare for hell/the netherworld/the fiery pit etc.

July 24, 2008, 9:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auronlu

Kuja, you called my post a "ridiculous and pointless rant."

At the time I read your post I was kind of angry, I apologize for my tone, I am not that kind of person.

Quote:

Perhaps it was ridiculous, and perhaps it was largely pointless -- I'm sure many of my students have thought as much of my lectures! But I assure you, while the internet sometimes obscures tone, and while I tend to be as longwinded as Cicero, it wasn't a rant.I admit, I am mildly taken aback by your calling me "treacherous" and "Judas." That is very strong language, accusing someone of being a backstabbing, greedy coward who would have friends killed for twenty bucks. Or worse. Judas is one of the most appalling figures of mythology, and I am startled that my offering a few thoughts about the thread topic incensed you so much that you called me that, and several other things besides.

I apologize if you perceived my comment that way, I was kidding around, and I wasn't trying to insult you.

Quote:

Well, well, the internet is, again, a poor medium of communication, so I'll assume misunderstanding. However, you'll have to pardon me if I don't apologize, since I don't think it's really that treacherous, offensive, and heinous for me to enter into a discussion and offer a few crumbs of thought.

Your correct, again I am sorry.

[quote] I was responding generally to the discussion that had gone before, and specifically to your post here: I was pointing out that while "the Bible is the Bible," as you say (you'll have to pardon me if I don't "damn" it), that doesn't mean all parts of it are regarded and weighted equally. Maybe that's exactly what you meant, but by saying it that way, it sounded as if you were bringing up the common literalist argument that one can't pick and choose which parts of the Bible to follow or to ditch. [/quote

I was merely claiming the Ten Commandments are a good key to good morals, nothing more nothing less.

Quote:

Other parts of my post were addressed more to the discussion at large, and I'm sorry if my addressing you over that first point led you to think that my scholarly blatherings were a rant aimed in your direction. No. I was commenting on the discussion at large, and (I am afraid) too lazy to go back through and quote ALL the posts that had stirred me to respond.

Its all good sir, I apologize for thinking your post was directly aimed at me.

Quote:

I was trying to make two points, which your post in particular but also several others had triggered as I was skimming through the thread:

1. Many Christians who say that homosexuality is condemned in the Bible point to the proscriptions against it in the Mosaic Code chapters of the OT, where Jewish Law is laid out. I was pointing out that this argument is inconsistent, since many other parts of the same code are rejected by Christians.

That doesn't tell us what God thinks of all this (if there is one), but it does address what many Christians think.

2. Earlier in this thread there was a discussion of the Sodom and Gomorrah episode, which is a Biblical fable that many Christians interpret as proof that God hates homosexuals (which is the topic of this thread). This episode was a topic of discussion in a Biblical Studies seminar I attended last year, and that seminar had given me a fresh perspective on which to view that fable and the Old Testament in general. The social context of the Bible tends to be ignored in favor of moral and religious interpretation. But viewed from its social and historical context, that fable's thrust is not so much that God hates homosexuals as it is proof that God hates people who violate the guest-host relationship.

That argument may strike you as ridiculous, but I don't see that it's altogether pointless, since it addresses the point of the thread.

Beh. Now I have to get back to work. If I sound a little stuffy right now, I do apologize -- I've just spent most of the day in the throes of dissertation research, and even when I try to take a break I sound like the articles I've been reading.

Again I apologize if I came off as rude, I just read what you said and my angry switch turned on, if you read some of my other posts I'm in fact sweet as sugar . You sound, and I believe you are an intellectual person, I'm sorry if you feel I posted that stuff without a given reason, because quite frankly anger doesn't justify anything.

My dearest apologies my friend, I hope this settled any issues, or doubt.

- Kuja

July 26, 2008, 4:45 AM

Gah, I didn't stop by here for a few days because I don't like getting into political/religious debates online (or anywhere) and figured there were better ways to spend my down time than arguing.

But thank you very much for your apologies! I'm very glad that your feathers were not permanently ruffled! Alas, net communications are in their infancy, and it's not the first time I've seen both sides misconstrue words as angry/frustrated that weren't.

*exhales*

Back to the thread topic, the "God hates homosexuals" argument -- or, more immediately, "the Bible condemns homosexuality" is a subject I worry about, with so many friends in the gay community (and me, though I'm not so worried about that) being the target and topic of this fiery debate. Children, families, loved ones, property and health coverage are regulated by society's opinion of us, so even if we don't believe God hates us (and/or we're not Christian), we still have to pay attention to those who DO believe it.

I've got a lot of queer friends who have absolutely no patience with those who condemn gays on religious grounds. "What right do they have to interfere with our personal lives?" asks my ex. Personally, though, I can understand why many conservative Christians are staunchly against homosexuality and say God is too, even if I don't agree. Even more, I can understand many people's fear of behavior they find creepy/disgusting/alien. Sex is a deep, intensely personal, and irrational instinct, and it brings up a lot of charged emotions, feelings, fears and passions. Any debate touching on it is bound to stir up strong emotions, fears, passions too! Combine that with the religious aspect -- religion being another non-rational part of our lives, based on faith rather than logic -- and you're bound to get fierce arguments in which the two sides simply canNOT see things from the other side's perspective.

And yeah, there's the unfortunate part that one form of gay male sex is using the poop chute, which is yet another charged taboo subject. It's not just gays that do that, though! I don't have much to say on that subject since it's not my thing, but... whatever. As long as it's not hurting anyone and is between consenting adults, it's not my business. And I just can't imagine a God that obsesses over human plumbing the way we do.

July 26, 2008, 5:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auronlu

Gah, I didn't stop by here for a few days because I don't like getting into political/religious debates online (or anywhere) and figured there were better ways to spend my down time than arguing.

But thank you very much for your apologies! I'm very glad that your feathers were not permanently ruffled! Alas, net communications are in their infancy, and it's not the first time I've seen both sides misconstrue words as angry/frustrated that weren't.

*exhales*

Back to the thread topic, the "God hates homosexuals" argument -- or, more immediately, "the Bible condemns homosexuality" is a subject I worry about, with so many friends in the gay community (and me, though I'm not so worried about that) being the target and topic of this fiery debate. Children, families, loved ones, property and health coverage are regulated by society's opinion of us, so even if we don't believe God hates us (and/or we're not Christian), we still have to pay attention to those who DO believe it.

I've got a lot of queer friends who have absolutely no patience with those who condemn gays on religious grounds. "What right do they have to interfere with our personal lives?" asks my ex. Personally, though, I can understand why many conservative Christians are staunchly against homosexuality and say God is too, even if I don't agree. Even more, I can understand many people's fear of behavior they find creepy/disgusting/alien. Sex is a deep, intensely personal, and irrational instinct, and it brings up a lot of charged emotions, feelings, fears and passions. Any debate touching on it is bound to stir up strong emotions, fears, passions too! Combine that with the religious aspect -- religion being another non-rational part of our lives, based on faith rather than logic -- and you're bound to get fierce arguments in which the two sides simply canNOT see things from the other side's perspective.

And yeah, there's the unfortunate part that one form of gay male sex is using the poop chute, which is yet another charged taboo subject. It's not just gays that do that, though! I don't have much to say on that subject since it's not my thing, but... whatever. As long as it's not hurting anyone and is between consenting adults, it's not my business. And I just can't imagine a God that obsesses over human plumbing the way we do.

Hi Auron,

I'm glad we could settle this missunderstanding we had =).

Now, I just have a few question for you, answer them all, in any order, I honestly could care less lol.

1. While I agree with you on the bible, how we truly know God does/doesn't hate homos?

2. Are the people who claim Mormons(for example) are bad people for condemning homosexuality hypocrites?

3. If god really does hate homosexuals where do you think they go when they die?

I have a lesbian female cousin, and I have no problem with her lifestyle, homosexuals can be homosexual for all I care. But thats a different matter, were argueing here If God does, or doesn't hate Homos, in my opinion nobody knows.

As I previously mentioned, the bible isn't gods word since he didn't write it. So..we can't truly know if thats what he truly thinks. If you refer to Exodus where it says "thou shall not suffer a witch" passage was actually changed in the 16th century from "thou shall not suffer a poisoner" aka somebody who poisons. It seems things have gotten changed along the way because somebody wanted to control/shun others.

Now I think people who criticize or condemn Mormons(again for example), or other homosexuality condemning faiths are no different from them. Their basically saying its not ok to be a <insert faith here>, when we meet our maker we'll find out =).

I look forward to your response, I apologize again for my rudeness, I gave you a rep point to counter the bad one I previously gave you.

Oh and I hear in Europe Anal Sex is quote common ^^.

- Kuja

July 26, 2008, 5:56 AM

Does God hate Bi's and Homo's...

Well, IMO if God is truly the person his thought out to be, he should accept everyone not mattering on there sexual orientation.

I'm not religious in any way, but if i did believe in God, i would think...If God did hate Bi's and Homo's then where would they go if they died? Would they go straight to hell because they love the same sex?