Does God Hate Bisexuals and Homosexuals? - Page 5

July 4, 2008, 10:58 PM

Frankly i think religion is a bunch of bullshit. That being said, I think that people who think that god hates bisexuals and homosexuals are just afraid of someone or something different than themselves and they need to learn to get the hell over it and get with the times. contrary to popular belief by many overly religious people, homosexuality isn't going to go away, and homosexuals aren't going to change to being straight just because some crazy person tries to push their beliefs on them. Case in point: the passage of Gay Marriage laws in California. California is among the first states to take a step in the right direction and recognize the right of two people who are in love to be able to marry, regardless of sexuality or gender, and the Mormons are all up in arms about it, and the higher up Mormons are calling on all Mormons in California to fight the gay marriage laws and try and get the law to be abolished. My question is what right do they have trying to interfere in something that doesn't concern them other than the fact that they are told by their "God" or their bible or what the fuck ever that homosexuals are sinners and should be stricken down and sent to hell.

Basically what I'm trying to say here is if "god" was all loving or whatever, then he wouldn't have a problem, but the crazy people who misinterpret things do.

July 5, 2008, 5:39 PM

From a Christian perspective, it can truly be argued either way. Common belief is that homosexuality is immoral, but that those who are homosexual should be helped and reached out to. However, there is evidence in the Bible - select evidence - that homosexuality is acceptable. I remember studying this in Ethics. I can't pull out quotes now but, believe me, they are there. HOwever, there are also quotes which give evidence that damns homosexuals.

The Bible contradicts itself in almost eeeeeverything.

And, as for my personal opinion... I don't believe that heaven or hell are literal, so I don't think God hates or damns homosexuals. I think heaven and hell are to do with your frame of mind. If you are selfish you will naturally be unhappy eternally 'cause you won't co-operate with others. I develoepd this idea from a story I was once told in primary school, where there are 2 sets of tables, each with long forks. Those who are selfish only feed themselves. Those who are not feed one another. As a result, those who are selfish starve, for they are unable to think about those around them. :/ So, from that idea, homosexuals can't be damned or punished.

Anyway, I agree with SorceressEdea. If God is all-loving, and all-forgiving, he will forgive people for following their heart. It doesn't harm other people!

But then I guess one could argue that people like Hitler only followed their heart...

Also, on another note... by common belief, God doesn't hate anyone. He just dislikes their actions. And if heaven and hell ARE literal...well, think of it like a parent punishing her child... They punish out of love, so they can learn. So, no: God doesn't hate homosexuals.

However, eternal damnation is terribly unfair for a bit of immorality in a short life by comparison, one might claim...

Mm, Philosophy and Ethics has made me open to every idea I can get a hold of! xP

July 5, 2008, 8:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SorceressEdea7

Frankly i think religion is a bunch of bullshit. That being said, I think that people who think that god hates bisexuals and homosexuals are just afraid of someone or something different than themselves and they need to learn to get the hell over it and get with the times. contrary to popular belief by many overly religious people, homosexuality isn't going to go away, and homosexuals aren't going to change to being straight just because some crazy person tries to push their beliefs on them. Case in point: the passage of Gay Marriage laws in California. California is among the first states to take a step in the right direction and recognize the right of two people who are in love to be able to marry, regardless of sexuality or gender, and the Mormons are all up in arms about it, and the higher up Mormons are calling on all Mormons in California to fight the gay marriage laws and try and get the law to be abolished. My question is what right do they have trying to interfere in something that doesn't concern them other than the fact that they are told by their "God" or their bible or what the fuck ever that homosexuals are sinners and should be stricken down and sent to hell.

Basically what I'm trying to say here is if "god" was all loving or whatever, then he wouldn't have a problem, but the crazy people who misinterpret things do.

They might as well make it illegal to not be Mormon as well, since intolerance is one of the things that's written of in the bible. So they'll leave atheists alone, but they won't leave homosexuals alone. In either case, they consider both to be sinners.

Believe what you will of homosexuals. But I think that trying to use the bible to excuse your reasons of not supporting homosexuality is not a good idea, particularly because it contradicts itself.

July 9, 2008, 8:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl Friedrich Gauß

They might as well make it illegal to not be Mormon as well, since intolerance is one of the things that's written of in the bible. So they'll leave atheists alone, but they won't leave homosexuals alone. In either case, they consider both to be sinners.

Believe what you will of homosexuals. But I think that trying to use the bible to excuse your reasons of not supporting homosexuality is not a good idea, particularly because it contradicts itself.

I would like to see know where, in the bible, you say all this is found. There is a possiblity you are viewing it in a different context than it is given.

July 9, 2008, 8:26 PM

There are so many of them that it would be difficult to believe that all of them would be taken out of context.

Leviticus 18:22, 20:13
1 Kings 14:24, 15:12, 22:43, 46
Isaiah 3:9
Romans 1:26 - 28 1:31-32
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
1 Timothy 1:10
...
I could list more, but that wouldn't be the point. The "context" is not necessarily the problem here, but in how people interpret the bible. There is no such thing as "the" interpretation, and if people believe that's what the bible says, that's their interpretation--if you believe that's not what it says, then that's your interpretation. However, since I do not use the bible to disapprove of homosexuality, it would be better that you ask the people who do use the bible to condemn homosexuality why they believe that's what the bible says.

I do not condemn homosexuals because of what the bible says; I don't condemn them because I don't see any reason why I have to; they're minding their own business, and I'm minding my own.

July 9, 2008, 9:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl Friedrich Gauß

There are so many of them that it would be difficult to believe that all of them would be taken out of context.

Leviticus 18:22, 20:13
1 Kings 14:24, 15:12, 22:43, 46
Isaiah 3:9
Romans 1:26 - 28 1:31-32
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
1 Timothy 1:10
...
I could list more, but that wouldn't be the point. The "context" is not necessarily the problem here, but in how people interpret the bible. There is no such thing as "the" interpretation, and if people believe that's what the bible says, that's their interpretation--if you believe that's not what it says, then that's your interpretation. However, since I do not use the bible to disapprove of homosexuality, it would be better that you ask the people who do use the bible to condemn homosexuality why they believe that's what the bible says.

I do not condemn homosexuals because of what the bible says; I don't condemn them because I don't see any reason why I have to; they're minding their own business, and I'm minding my own.

Leviticus 18:22, 20:13 - explains that acting on homosexuality is a sin. Not the person. Now the people who are doing homosexual things are punished because of them doing it. Not for any other reason. This is easily misinterpreted.

1 Kings 14:24, 15:12, 22:43, 46 - the people who followed this particular practice the people of Judah created worshipped this. Just because they worshipped it, doesn't mean that they are that though. Again, it's all in the context.

These next few verses are showing that they accept the way they are, again, not saying that they are what they are doing.

Isaiah 3:9 - People can interpret this wrong because it is what they are doing is being shown on their faces. But if you look further in the verse, it is the sin that is showing. Again, nowhere does it say it is what they are.

Romans 1:26 - 28 1:31-32 - It is saying that if the person accepts what they are doing, despite that it is wrong, then God let's them go, but He waits for their return.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Again, those who practice these things, and do it in acceptance of it, will not get into heaven. Still does not say if you practice homosexuality you are one. They are still human, just like the rest of us.

1 Timothy 1:10 - This goes into shortened, but detailed explanations. The laws written there are for those who PRACTICE it. Still no evidence of it saying that they are what they practice.

Most people take the bible word for word, which is not the best way to do it. That is why they say things like they are homosexual. There is no proof of it saying that they are.

Where are the contradictions? I am interested in those as well.

July 10, 2008, 4:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger

Leviticus 18:22, 20:13 - explains that acting on homosexuality is a sin. Not the person. Now the people who are doing homosexual things are punished because of them doing it. Not for any other reason. This is easily misinterpreted.

Right. In 18:22 it says a man lying with another man as he would a woman is detestable. In 20:13 it expands on this by saying that they must be put to death. Do you want the quote so you can see it and not try to twist it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leviticus 20:13

If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Misinterpreted my ass, it's clear as day. Homosexuality is such a "detestable" sin that there is to be no compassion or lenience for the gay lovers, they must be murdered. If you don't want to believe me and think I'm making it up, there are probably at least 20 Bibles in this house and I could easily scan the page. As a matter of fact, that whole chapter is terrible, it talks about punishments for various sins (many sexually related), and often times the punishment is death.

And just a chapter back, in Leviticus 19:19, it's discussing various laws, and bluntly says "do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material." Should I not wear half polyester, half cotton clothes anymore? If we go back to chapter 15, it discusses that special time of the month women have. To sum it all up, the woman who is on her period is considered unclean, anything she touches is unclean, anyone who touches her is unclean. And this bit is so ridiculous I'd just like to quote it:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leviticus 15:28-31

(28)When she is cleansed from her discharge, she must count off seven days, and after that she will be ceremonially clean.
(29) On the eighth day she must take two doves or two young pigeons and bring them to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting.
(30) The priest is to sacrifice one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement for her before the LORD for the uncleanness of her discharge.
(31) You must keep the Israelites separate from things that make them unclean, so they will not die in their uncleanness for defiling my dwelling place, which is among them.

So apparently, a woman is actually sinning by having a natural period, and you must keep people away from women on their periods lest it kill the others with its horrid uncleanliness. Are you telling us that we should actually seriously consider the Bible's views on homosexuals when it tells us this kind of stuff?

These are all outdated, sexist, barbaric laws for a tribe of people living in the desert a few thousand years ago who used "Jehova" as an excuse for murder or segregation when they didn't like something.

July 10, 2008, 5:49 AM

Prince Vegeta, the point that was being made was that nowhere in the Bible does it say WORD FOR WORD, that what sin you commit is what you are. That was the whole point I was getting at. People misinterpret it as the otherway around.

July 10, 2008, 6:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger

Prince Vegeta, the point that was being made was that nowhere in the Bible does it say WORD FOR WORD, that what sin you commit is what you are. That was the whole point I was getting at. People misinterpret it as the otherway around.

I understood fully what your point was. You were trying to go for that whole "love the sinner, hate the sin" philosophy. Unfortunately for you, the Bible doesn't support this. You did read the passages I quoted, right? It makes no differentiation between homosexuals and the act of homosexuality. There is no forgiveness, just a blatant order to kill them. It did not say that a woman's period is unclean, it said that the woman herself was unclean. There is absolutely no differentiation between the sin and what you are. It's right there, clear as the fucking Bible I have in my hand. I'm not misinterpreting anything, you're just trying to make it look as if I am so you don't have to admit I proved that the Bible is outdated barbaric bullshit.