Shakespeare? - Page 3

December 24, 2007, 6:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The End

he is clever. better than lady macbeth who only got macbeth to kill duncan because she wanted to be queen. macbeth just turns into a psychopath and lady macbeth goes mad and kills herself.

Being clever does not make you more than a one dimensional character. Cleverness has nothing to do with well-written characters. He is a poorly written character for all of the aforementioned reasons. He doesn't have any good motivation or redeeming qualities. There is no such thing as a purely evil person. People we perceive as evil don't walk around and think to themselves, "I know! I'm going to do something totally evil!" This is exactly what Iago does in Othello. He decides to destroy Othello because he "hates the Moor." That is the ONLY reason he gives. That, and he believes Othello didn't deserve promotion. I'm not sure about you, but when someone I dislike is promoted, I don't plot the destruction of their life.

December 24, 2007, 6:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grand Lethal

I've probably said this before, but ...

Romeo & Juliet = GARBAGE. It is NOT an epic love story. Seriously, I don't understand why people like it so much. Plot, characters, everything was so bloody awful!

Romeo & Juliet = Emo. "BAWWWWWWWWWW! MY LOVER DIED I CANT GO ON LIVING I MUST END MY MISERY!" That's not the epitome of great writing, it's adolescent storytelling at best. It showcases being way too dependent on a single person and taking the easy way out, only with a flourishy, artsy feel to it.

Anyway, I don't like Shakespeare. I've read a few of his stories, King Lear, Hamlet, Romeo and Juliet and The Tempest. Hamlet was the only decent one, but even that didn't strike me as a particularly fascinating piece of literature. Although I do quite like the idea of dripping poison in one's ear xD

December 26, 2007, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VengefulRonin

Romeo & Juliet = Emo. "BAWWWWWWWWWW! MY LOVER DIED I CANT GO ON LIVING I MUST END MY MISERY!" That's not the epitome of great writing, it's adolescent storytelling at best.

Here's the thing - the ideas that we term cliche nowadays were created by Shakespeare. 400 years ago, no one had ever created something like Romeo and Juliet - he was the first to do it.

Because those ideas were so good, they were eventually copied to excess, leading to the situation we have today, were same, stale ideas are hashed again and again.

Basically, what I'm saying is that if we had been alive during the Shakespearean era we would have thought his ideas and writings were revolutionary and original. It's only because his ideas have been repeated so much that leads to your comment.

Shakespeare is still relevant today. Hardly a day goes by without each and every one of us who uses the English language repeating a quote that was written by him. In addition, he introduced hundreds of new words into the English language, while revolutionizing it's grammar and syntax. In addition, he addressed controversial topics that are of debate today. For example, the idea of homosexuality in Twelfth Night was a central theme of the play, and is still debated by scholars today.

In my view, the strength of a writer is shown in how enduring his or her words are. If that is the case, Shakespeare is the greatest writer of all. Even though he lived 400 years ago, he still exerts the biggest influence on the English language today - bar, of course, the Internet.

As it is said - everyone remembers the poem; no one remembers the poet.

December 27, 2007, 2:08 AM

actually the simpsons has added more words and phrases to language than shakespeare.

but i think that his plays are too focused on the rich and powerful, and they are a bit unrealistic.
they give the reader what they want in terms of excitement and complex characters like brutus.
yet i think more can be learnt from ibsen and miller when it comes to the common man

December 27, 2007, 3:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzel

Here's the thing - the ideas that we term cliche nowadays were created by Shakespeare. 400 years ago, no one had ever created something like Romeo and Juliet - he was the first to do it.

So it's Shakespeare to blame for it all, then?

I'm pretty sure that 400 years ago it still counted as taking the easy way out when you killed yourself because you thought your lover was dead. Yes, how tragic, he couldn't cope with his girl dying so he decided to kill himself, only for the reader to find out that she was alive. Biggest "d'oh" moment ever.

Quote:

Because those ideas were so good, they were eventually copied to excess, leading to the situation we have today, were same, stale ideas are hashed again and again.

IMHO, a story about a weak man dependent on love who commits suicide doesn't equal good. But that's my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The End

actually the simpsons has added more words and phrases to language than shakespeare.

D'oh!

I'm not sure about the Simpsons adding that many words to the English language, but I'm certain the internet and common slang terms throughout the generations have added much more than Shakespeare has. Not to mention slang often adopts terms from other languages too and uses them, if not altering them in the process, so that adds to the amount too.