Final Fantasy Forums

Welcome to Final Fantasy Forums, a community where you can discuss your love for all things Final Fantasy. Just go ahead and register for a free account. Community features:
  • The Shoutbox chat system
  • Free arcade
  • An active RPG system powered by Inferno (members may join after 50 posts)
  • Over 15,000 threads and 300,000 posts, and thousands of visitors each day
Go ahead and sign up today. After signing up, you can introduce yourself in the introductions forum.
  
Go Back   Final Fantasy Forums > Farplane > Zanarkand Ruins > Gaia Archive
Reload this Page Proof
 
Gaia Archive Archive of old threads from the Gaia section of the board.

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  
Old December 3, 2006, 6:40 PM   #11
Banned
Adamant is on a distinguished road
Class: Banned
Level: 0
HP: 0/0
/ (0%) / (0%)
MP: 0/0
/ (0%) / (0%)
EXP: 0
/100 (0%) /100 (0%)
 
Join Date: October 2006
Location: Nowhere near Scotland
Posts: 862
Threads: 92
Gil: 0
Member No.: 655
Rep Power: 0
Hm... I'd probably go with the standard "thousands of documented cases of healing by prayer" reasoning for this scenario.
Scan Adamant Adamant is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Go to the top of the page
  
Old December 3, 2006, 6:42 PM   #12
Tessbot  
I am a robot.
Tessbot will become famous soon enough
 
Tessbot's Avatar
Class: Administrator
Level: 0
HP: 0/0
/ (0%) / (0%)
MP: 0/0
/ (0%) / (0%)
EXP: 0
/100 (0%) /100 (0%)
 
Join Date: June 2006
Location: Canada, Toronto
Posts: 1,762
Threads: 41
Gil: 0
Member No.: 4
My Mood:
Rep Power: 10
Well, I can't see what's wrong with asking God to prevent a famine, drought or other natural disaster.

It can never be too much to ask because God is supposedly omnipotent. Anything you ask him can be done by him. If not, then he isn't omnipotent. And asking God to prevent a natural disaster isn't wrong because you want to save people. He's done it in the past anyways, so he can do it now. But for some reason, people who have prayed for him to stop these things don't get it.
__________________

Pauca sed Matura

"Meum verbum est meus gladius!"
"Arbitraris id veneficium quod te ludificat. Arbitror id formam quod intellego."
"Ignorationi est non medicina."




Scan Tessbot Tessbot is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Go to the top of the page
  
Old December 3, 2006, 6:58 PM   #13
Banned
Adamant is on a distinguished road
Class: Banned
Level: 0
HP: 0/0
/ (0%) / (0%)
MP: 0/0
/ (0%) / (0%)
EXP: 0
/100 (0%) /100 (0%)
 
Join Date: October 2006
Location: Nowhere near Scotland
Posts: 862
Threads: 92
Gil: 0
Member No.: 655
Rep Power: 0
You know, saying that it's impossible for God to preform miracles because he doesn't ALWAYS do it is like saying it's impossible for a flipped coin to land on heads because it doesn't ALWAYS land that way.
Scan Adamant Adamant is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Go to the top of the page
  
Old December 4, 2006, 3:02 PM   #14
Vampire Hunter
Dragonsoul is on a distinguished road
 
Dragonsoul's Avatar
Class: Full Member
Level: 0
HP: 0/0
/ (0%) / (0%)
MP: 0/0
/ (0%) / (0%)
EXP: 0
/100 (0%) /100 (0%)
 
Join Date: June 2006
Posts: 174
Threads: 9
Gil: 0
Member No.: 80
Rep Power: 3
^No it's not. A flipped coin is entirely unpredictable because it has only basic factors of wind, weight, etc. to affect it. If any of those things were affected the coin would land on a certain side all the time. God, however, isn't affected by "greater things"--he supposedly is the greatest thing. If god is kind why wouldn't he want to do kind things? Isn't preventing a disaster a kind thing? If he dosen't do a kind thing we can only draw two conclusions--either he dosen't have the power to do such a thing or he dosen't care to. If he hasn't the power he isn't omnipotent; if he refuses to he isn't kind.
Scan Dragonsoul Dragonsoul is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Go to the top of the page
  
Old December 4, 2006, 4:01 PM   #15
[x Sexy Seducer x]
Garnet is on a distinguished road
 
Garnet's Avatar
Class: Full Member
Level: 0
HP: 0/0
/ (0%) / (0%)
MP: 0/0
/ (0%) / (0%)
EXP: 0
/100 (0%) /100 (0%)
 
Join Date: November 2006
Location: US of A
Age: 23
Posts: 613
Threads: 20
Gil: 0
Member No.: 1306
Rep Power: 3
I don't think it is that simple to say if God does not do a "kind" thing either he doesn't care or that he doesn't have the power. Like I said before, maybe he has an ultimate plan in mind? We as humans don't have the power to see ahead in the future like God can. I don't think we can ever understand why God chooses to let some things happen, but I know that we do have a free will that God will not interfere with. And okay, I know people are going to probably go after me on this idea, but with Hurricane Katrina, New Orleans really was an epicenter of sin and promiscuity and homosexuality, many things of which God has been said to abhor. Remember Sodom and Gomorrah? Just a thought....
Scan Garnet Garnet is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Go to the top of the page
  
Old December 4, 2006, 10:38 PM   #16
Tessbot  
I am a robot.
Tessbot will become famous soon enough
 
Tessbot's Avatar
Class: Administrator
Level: 0
HP: 0/0
/ (0%) / (0%)
MP: 0/0
/ (0%) / (0%)
EXP: 0
/100 (0%) /100 (0%)
 
Join Date: June 2006
Location: Canada, Toronto
Posts: 1,762
Threads: 41
Gil: 0
Member No.: 4
My Mood:
Rep Power: 10
Haven't there been accounts of people being saved by God in the bible?

I'm actually referring more to people who are less fortunate and are barely able to get by. Most people who live in third world countries or are born poor don't usually deserve it.

One could also conclude that since not much of this makes sense with the way God is acting (since we assume he exists), then it could be said that he doesn't exist, and there is no explanation as to why good or bad things happen.
__________________

Pauca sed Matura

"Meum verbum est meus gladius!"
"Arbitraris id veneficium quod te ludificat. Arbitror id formam quod intellego."
"Ignorationi est non medicina."




Scan Tessbot Tessbot is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Go to the top of the page
  
Old December 5, 2006, 8:42 AM   #17
Chocobo Breeder
Geth is on a distinguished road
Class: Junior Member
Level: 0
HP: 0/0
/ (0%) / (0%)
MP: 0/0
/ (0%) / (0%)
EXP: 0
/100 (0%) /100 (0%)
 
Join Date: December 2006
Posts: 17
Gil: 0
Member No.: 2214
Rep Power: 0
well I could do the whole flying speghatti monster theory on sciences' aspect on God. But I won't because I tend to think Richard Dawkins is full of hot air.

To prove God exist, well science states that it cannot neither prove nor disprove the existance of a being outside the physical universe (funny thing though, they admit the existence of "an unseen factor" that is responsible for varying paradoxes).

One other fun fact is that science, though they won't easily admit it is that for their reason to work in the universe, they admit that the universe (regardless of how it was created) is a universe created out of chaos and has become a Universe of order and balance. A very theological idea.

As for the human suffering thought on determining God's existance, remember, it states that God gave human free will. The ability to act in accordance to their own will, which allows humans to believe or not believe in a creator and allows them to cause the suffering of others along with the caring of others. (Not bad for my first post I must say.)
Scan Geth Geth is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Go to the top of the page
  
Old December 5, 2006, 2:50 PM   #18
Vampire Hunter
Dragonsoul is on a distinguished road
 
Dragonsoul's Avatar
Class: Full Member
Level: 0
HP: 0/0
/ (0%) / (0%)
MP: 0/0
/ (0%) / (0%)
EXP: 0
/100 (0%) /100 (0%)
 
Join Date: June 2006
Posts: 174
Threads: 9
Gil: 0
Member No.: 80
Rep Power: 3
Quote:
I don't think it is that simple to say if God does not do a "kind" thing either he doesn't care or that he doesn't have the power. Like I said before, maybe he has an ultimate plan in mind? We as humans don't have the power to see ahead in the future like God can.
No, but we as humans must suffer because god refuses to make his way known...if he exists at all. Basically you're saying because we don't know his intentions for allowing harm to happen even though he can stop it we can't discredit him or his existence for it. Interestingly enough, such a powerful being would have a very easy time of making his intentions known yet he fails to do so. I won't go stuff that's not proven. I will go on something I can see, hear, feel, know. God allows suffering. There is no refuting that. Does he do allow it for a greater purpose? I don't know but until it's proven that he does I will draw the conclusion that is most logical.

Quote:
I don't think we can ever understand why God chooses to let some things happen, but I know that we do have a free will that God will not interfere with.
Incorrect. The power to do anything and the power to know everything overrides free will. If god knows the future then my life is already written and nothing I do can change it.

Quote:
And okay, I know people are going to probably go after me on this idea, but with Hurricane Katrina, New Orleans really was an epicenter of sin and promiscuity and homosexuality, many things of which God has been said to abhor. Remember Sodom and Gomorrah? Just a thought....
That was an entirely biased and unfair comment. I have a friend that comes from there and he is none of the things you claim him to be. Try to learn things, my dear, before stating them as fact. You have no proof to back up your claim that people in New Orleans deserved a mass murder--don't you realize there were plenty of innocent people there? Or does god just ignore that and go killling at will? That would conicide with everything in the bible come to think of it--the flood after all was another such example of god's inability to deal with things rationally.
Scan Dragonsoul Dragonsoul is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Go to the top of the page
  
Old December 6, 2006, 12:55 AM   #19
Seed Mercenary
Dark Tidus is on a distinguished road
 
Dark Tidus's Avatar
Class: Full Member
Level: 34
HP: 400/400
400/400 (100%) 400/400 (100%) 400/400 (100%)
MP: 300/300
300/300 (100%) 300/300 (100%) 300/300 (100%)
EXP: 55
55/100 (55%) 55/100 (55%)
 
Join Date: December 2006
Location: Inside Sin
Age: 15
Posts: 942
Threads: 18
Gil: 0
Member No.: 2049
My Mood:
Rep Power: 3
I believe in god for reasons... unkown I have no reason it's just one of those things that you just know, sort of like an instinct. I have things like practicing and failing and failing and then when I have to pull it off (the reason I had been practicing) it just happens. I don't know maybe it's just luck, maybe it's random but I like to use it as proof of my god... I really don't want to get into a religious debate, but I have already put myself up to it so go ahead and resist my thesis...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonsoul View Post
No, but we as humans must suffer because god refuses to make his way known...if he exists at all. Basically you're saying because we don't know his intentions for allowing harm to happen even though he can stop it we can't discredit him or his existence for it. Interestingly enough, such a powerful being would have a very easy time of making his intentions known yet he fails to do so. I won't go stuff that's not proven. I will go on something I can see, hear, feel, know. God allows suffering. There is no refuting that. Does he do allow it for a greater purpose? I don't know but until it's proven that he does I will draw the conclusion that is most logical.



Incorrect. The power to do anything and the power to know everything overrides free will. If god knows the future then my life is already written and nothing I do can change it.
I have a bone to pick with you... How do you know that your life isn't already set and written as if in stone, How do you know that an omnipotent GOD is not able to repredict your new future on a moments notice, after you have changed your future, I forgot the myth but didn't the guy in mythology try to change his future by not killing his father and marrying his mother. He failed, he found some guy on the street who insulted him and he killed this guy it was his father. Then he found this girl at the palace and married her, it was his mother. He ran away to avoid this fate yet it happened anyways...
__________________

There used be some ad here...


Julius made this for me!!
SavvyWilt: "Man she's hot, I can't even begin to tell you the.. things.. I... oh.. my.. god"


when you start playing the rpg, come to the components shop!
link:http://www.finalfantasyforums.net/ma...tml#post371301
Scan Dark Tidus Dark Tidus is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Go to the top of the page
  
Old December 6, 2006, 7:06 PM   #20
Left holding nary a thing.
Vayne Solidor has a spectacular aura about
 
Vayne Solidor's Avatar
Class: Moderator
Level: 0
HP: 0/0
/ (0%) / (0%)
MP: 0/0
/ (0%) / (0%)
EXP: 0
/100 (0%) /100 (0%)
 
Join Date: June 2006
Location: Fife, Scotland.
Age: 17
Posts: 5,178
Threads: 342
Gil: 0
Member No.: 78
My Mood:
Rep Power: 9
"What if" it isn't?

"Mythology" explains itself - Myth's are untrue.

Oh, no double-posts please
__________________
| The Moderating Team | Our Site Rules | Announcement: Spamming |

Coco is a graphical genius.

My hands are stained with blood. I see little reason to stay them now.
The Gods have chosen their scribe, to write history as they deem fit.
Hark! Ivalice hails her new Dynast-King, Vayne Solidor!
Blood alone does not an emperor make.
Scan Vayne Solidor Vayne Solidor is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Go to the top of the page
 



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts