Animal Testing - Right or Wrong? - Page 12

October 2, 2007, 9:10 PM

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Originally Posted by Tyler Durden

The way I see animal testing is; what is actually wrong with it? Whatever happened to "survival of the fittest"? Humans have come to be the top species on the planet. I'm not saying that gives us the right to lord it over everyone and everything, but you've got to do whatever it takes to survive and if that means through animal testing then so be it.
Also what most people ignore is the fact that the animals used for testing are bred for that purpose - testing. If it wasn't for the need of testing on them, they wouldn't have had any form of existence. Who are we to deny that?
And the vast majority of people who speak out against animal testing are hypocrites. If it was their child, mother, father, brother, sister or whatever who was seriously ill and needed a drug that had been tested on animals, then they'd agree to it in a heartbeat. When it's affecting them, it all becomes perfectly justified.

Of course that only applies to medical means. I don't agree with cosmetic testing at all.

Very well said, good sir

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Aighurhmnw

Yeh, i see your point.

Personally I think that it's not fair to test on animals, whatever gave humans the right to decide that we are superior? Just because we cut down the rainforests and built factories and have opposable thumbs to do all these wondrous deeds, doesn't mean that we are any better. If anything it makes us worse. Or maybe it's because we all speak the same language that we are better.. oh, wait a minute.. no we don't! It's not even bloody english that the rest of the world speaks, just typical ignorance again. Most speak Mandarin and Spanish anyhoos. How do we KNOW that animals don't communicate in their own dialect?? And how do we know that we think in a language aswell, maybe its just because we speak it that we have to think in a way that we will understand, theres no point translating your thoughts into setswana if you dont have a scooby what its about.

How do we know? Um...well, there's a science called zoology, it studies animals. Animals DO communicate, yes, but it's nothing near as complex as human speech. A few birds have vocal cords developed enough to mimic our speech, but even then their brains have no comprehension of what they're saying. Animals can sometimes learn a few words of a language, but they're never able to speak it nor understand much of anything beyond "sit!" or "fetch!"

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Humans are actually the only species of animal (yes, thats right, ANIMAL, as we are made of animal cells and are clearly not plants. 'Oooh, someone wasn't paying attention in biology class') that kill their own kind. And i think it's rather ignorant to imply that animals don't create anything beautiful. Maybe you just haven't looked hard enough?

Wow, this is incredibly stupid and beyond ignorant. I'm pretty damn sure that you missed biology class. Ever hear of the praying mantis? When through mating, the female eats the male. Female black widow spiders will also kill their mates on occasion. I'm pretty sure that counts as killing their own kind. Animals of the same species also generally fight each other over food, too. So go back to school or watch the Discovery Channel before you spew nonsense like "animals don't kill their own kind" because they do.

And tell me, what are you thinking of that animals create? Pretty spiderwebs or something? Eryth was talking about things unnecessary to survival. Humans make paintings, tapestries, statues, music and all sorts of forms of art. Are they necessary to survival? No, but we make them anyway because we have the capacity to create art and appreciate it. Animals don't do anything beyond what instinct tells them too and that doesn't include making art. And if anyone talks about elephants painting, so help me god I'm going to find a way to slap you physically through the internet. Thats just a human giving supplies to the elephant and the elephant screwing around, it has no comprehension of what it's doing. Not to mention you never see elephants or any other animals creating paints in the wild or anything else. Animals. Don't. Make. Art.

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The point that you are making in general is really immature though. That because humans have the ability to pick up a paintbrush that it will mask up the wrong-doing of others, and makes it okily do for us to go on slaughtering sprees when the mood arises, or slather innocent animals in harmful chemicals to see how much pain it puts them through.

No, your point is immature since you're blithering on about things when you don't even have simple facts down like animals do kill their own kind. And no, humans creating art does not absolve us from our sins, the POINT Eryth was stating (which I'm sure you've completely missed) is that humans have the brain power and the advancement to create fine art whereas animals do not. Humans are not led by instinct like animals are, we are a higher lifeform that utilizes free will, not routines programmed into our DNA. That is WHY we are able to make fine art or decide to test on lesser, expendable species to save our own lives. And "slaughtering sprees when the mood arises"? Come on man, there's such a thing called "law" which for the most part prevents people from from going on killing sprees. Thats the whole point of law and government, to create stability and prevent anarchy.

October 2, 2007, 9:41 PM

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Originally Posted by Princess Aighurhmnw

Gimme some fin.. noggin... DUUUDE

Don't start patronising me for having opinions and being just a little open-minded to the possible fact that scientists don't infact know everything, and maybe there is just the tiniest possibility that there are some things that they'll never understand??

It's like the whole colour thing again! The colours that we can see could be a completely different spectrum from what everybody else sees, How do we know??? We can't see what other people see. Try and describe the colour red to someone, its not that easy is it.

Anyhoo my point was that there are some things in life people will never know, and you cannot say for a fact that animals don't have feelings and aren't as important or as smart as humans. Have you ever watched Crufts??? Animals are extremely smart!!!!!!

I'm not patronizing you, I'm telling you to go back to biology class and learn your facts before you post ignorant things like "ZOMG ANIMALS DONT KILL THEIR OWN KIND!!!!"

Yes, there are some things scientists will never understand, most of those things lie in the realm of metaphysics and the spiritual world (assuming that exists).

People see color the same. And scientists can figure out how animals see too, whether it's in infrared or colorblind. And your color argument is also nonsensical and completely off topic.

Crufts is also a silly, irrelevant argument. It's a dog show. You know how those dogs learn the commands? People telling the commands to dogs over and over again and showing them how to go through the course. The dog simply learns to recognize certain commands. If you dropped a dog in there before months of training, it would just run around stupidly without knowing what the hell the course was for. They aren't smart enough to figure it out on their own.

October 2, 2007, 9:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Aighurhmnw

Gimme some fin.. noggin... DUUUDE

Don't start patronising me for having opinions and being just a little open-minded to the possible fact that scientists don't infact know everything, and maybe there is just the tiniest possibility that there are some things that they'll never understand??

It's like the whole colour thing again! The colours that we can see could be a completely different spectrum from what everybody else sees, How do we know??? We can't see what other people see. Try and describe the colour red to someone, its not that easy is it.

Anyhoo my point was that there are some things in life people will never know, and you cannot say for a fact that animals don't have feelings and aren't as important or as smart as humans. Have you ever watched Crufts??? Animals are extremely smart!!!!!!

The argument isn't that animals are stupid; some animals are quite smart. But their intelligence pales in comparison to the intelligence of humans. Humans are the most intelligence species. Intelligence is our weapon and our defense.

Finnegan, it's called reading. You should try it. I never said *I* decided that humans are superior. NATURE decided humans are superior. You want proof? The mere fact that we can put animals in cages and experiment on them proves we're superior. The stronger species is superior, at least in biological sense of things. You can't argue with that.

October 2, 2007, 9:54 PM

PA, that was uncalled for. There is no need to resort to name calling.

Im closing this thread as people are starting to flame and cause drama.
If another mod wants to open this back up, then do so. But its just becoming a joke.

*Closed*

October 3, 2007, 6:51 PM

Although SS has clearly voiced distaste towards some of the unfortunately childish comments made in this thread, I'm re-opening this. However should the petty insults continue, or retaliation incur, I'm locking it indefinitely and giving the perpetrator an infraction.

Resume in a mature manner, kids.

October 3, 2007, 9:48 PM

Yay! You reopened this!

Now we can debate to our hearts' content.

Anyway, just to make my stance perfectly clear in case it's been lost during all the debates, I'm for animal testing when it's for scientific purposes to save human lives. I'm not for animal testing when it's for shampoo and cosmetic crap, that's just wasting animal lives. Also, I don't approve of treating the animals cruelly.

As I stated in another post many pages back, my idea would be to try to keep the captive animals as comfy as possible, kind of like how people will board pets at kennels. That way, the animals will be happy and won't be stressed out, so when it comes time to test something on them, they'll react better and won't be traumatized. Afterwards, keep them comfy again. I'm not really sure what they could do with animals they were through using, you can't put them in the wild or adopt them out....maybe an animal sanctuary of sorts?

October 3, 2007, 9:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiva

It depends on the specie (I'm not sure about the spelling

) if it's endangered than defenetly not. Scientists should have a limited number to test, and there should be a period of time between experiments, even if it was invented the same day. I really think that us and the animals should try and be equal, after all, humans did come from an ape

I'm not sure if I made much of a point, I just wrote down what I think about animal testing

I've got to say, that's just plain stupid. There's already laws against testing on endangered species, such as pandas, polar bears and so on. The most common animals used are mice, rats, gerbils, guinea pigs; easily bred animals. And restricting the number they can test on won't help development at all. How are advances supposed to be made if they're limited to how many tests they can conduct?
Obviously humans and animals aren't equal, otherwise we'd all live in fields or caves or whatnot.

October 3, 2007, 10:27 PM

I'm pretty much fine with animal testing. Oft times or almost always the case, something has to be sacrificed in exchange for something or for the greater purpose. I'm not saying "greater good", because I doubt that it is all the time. Humans are at the top of the food chain when given pleasant circumstances. Humans can think and have thought or even have a soul.

As for an animal like lab rats or rabbits, they do not provoke thought as intelligently as we do. We can never imagine realistically what a lab rat or rabbit feels like because we will never be in their bodies as them, depending on your beliefs, that statement may be different. Yes the animal probably feels stressed from being in a cage, but it was bred and born to fulfill its purpose as an experimental item.

Sometimes, I honestly like to turn the other way and just think ignorantly that a lab rat is just being put in a maze and made to go after that piece of cheese at the end.

I'm just glad for now, I am not the one deciding the fate of a lab rat or rabbit or any other lab animal for that matter.

October 4, 2007, 9:10 AM

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Originally Posted by VengefulRonin

Yay! You reopened this!

Now we can debate to our hearts' content.

To a degree. As Saix said, it'll be locked again if the drama starts up again and people are getting infractions. I personally think it should remain shut ...