Storyline-wise, I'm actually not sure that GF's are required to use Para-Magic at all. Of course I realize that, as far as gameplay is concerned, no one can use standard Magic (under normal circumstances) without a GF Junctioned. However, as far as the storyline is concerned, Para-Magic and Guardian Forces are typically referred to as separate from one-another. Though I can't remember the exact quote, I believe a tutorial in the game said that what makes Balamb Garden stand out among the other Gardens is its use of Para-Magic and Guardian Forces.

Then there's the fact that Seifer's ability to use Magic without a GF Junctioned is never mentioned in the story. Don't you think that would hold some significance in the storyline if only certain people could use Para-Magic without a Guardian Force Junctioned? Plus, if I remember correctly, I seem to remember SeeD Trainees using Magic during the Garden Wars. Of course, I don't know how much weight this holds, considering SeeD are trained in the usage of GF's from pretty much the moment they arrive at the Garden. I just think that it's unlikely that Seifer is a special case. Besides, doesn't he only ever use Fire Spells?

I'd say that GF's are neccessary in order to use stronger Magic, but, storyline-wise, most of the characters can probably use the weaker Para-Magic spells without aid from a GF. Again, I realize that this contradicts what we see in gameplay, but the storyline does refer to GF's and Para-Magic as separate abilities. Plus, I really think that, if Seifer were the only student at Balamb who could use Magic naturally, they would've pointed that out at some time during the storyline. We could always just chalk it up to an error on the part of the creators, though.

As for Seifer's insanity...Well, maybe he wasn't batshit crazy just yet, but he definitely wasn't sane enough to think clearly and fully comprehend the consequences of his actions. Yes, he knows what he's doing, but he doesn't understand the impact his actions are having on the world around him. He'd just been through so much that he finally cracked. It's not as obvious as some characters with emotional issues (like, say, Sephiroth during the Nibelheim incident), but Seifer definitely has problems.

I think Squall is the strongest, in their first duel Seifer uses a fire attack to throw Squall down and slashes him and then Squall slashes back, it was probably a draw.

Then in the game Squall beats Seifer one on one...and then goes on to fight Edea.

Seifer kills Odin with a single move, but then gets owned by Gilgamesh.

On the other hand Seifer was the one who was choosen to be the captain of Squad B, and i doubt it was because of his leadership capabilities since he as none, so either it was because of his streght or because Headmaster Cid wanted to give him a chance.

But Squall along the game beats a lot of powerful enemies (with help), also Squall was put in charge of the entire Garden, and as a lot of devastating attacks and combos especially Lion Heart which can beat Seifer in one round, although it's understandable that they could not make an enemy boss have such a type of attack.

But since Squall in terms of story beats Seifer alone one time i think he is the strongest, also in a one on one fight Squall could easily beat Seifer (the boss) i mean what's Seifer compared to Ultima Weapon or Omega Weapon???

Nope. Squall and the entire party never used magic in cutscenes. Seifer does.

Besides, game mechanics is storyline related. If it wasn’t, then Seifer vs. Odin wouldn’t be void and we know it’s Edea’s limit break she used to pwn Squall after the fight on Disk 1... Gameplay and story can be closely tied.


This could be true. It’s been a long time since I played the game.

A. Good point.
B. Yes, that seems to be his preference.


Well obviously. He and Squall both had issues. Squall just had the benefit of coming to terms with them and not constantly having his former love beat him up. (If you choos eto fight Seifer with Rinoa anyway)


Well he’s a lot faster for one. Odin could kill Squall with his Zantetsuken and Seifer’s move is even faster.
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He might be faster, but he is a lot weaker in fact as a boss he is one of the weakest. And he only uses the move he used to counter Odins attack against Odin, when fighting the others he uses a different attack "Demon Slice" or something like that.

He used Bloodfest on the party in the final fight where he kills Odin. He uses Demon Slice in the second fight.

To tell you the truth, it is mainly speculation on my part. I actually heard the idea from someone on the GameFAQ's forums, and it just...made sense to me. I figured, if GF's and Para-Magic really are referred to separately, and we see SeeD Trainees using Para-Magic, then perhaps it really was true. Still, it isn't outright confirmed in the game itself. You kind of have to read between the lines a little bit and fill in a few of the blanks for yourself. Still, it does clear up one or two plotholes concerning the usage of Para-Magic. The biggest plothole would probably be the fact that Galbadia soldiers can use basic Para-Magic spells like Fire, Thunder, and Blizzard, when they certainly don't have access to GF's.

My theory is that a person can be trained to use "standard" Para-Magic (such as Firaga, Thundaga, Silence, etc.) without the use of a Guardian Force. However, to use the more advanced spells (Ultima, Flare, Meteor, etc.), a person needs to be Junctioned to a GF. That's why Balamb Garden is still considered superior to other military forces. Since it practices the usage of both Guardian Forces and Para-Magic, its SeeD have access to a wider range of more powerful Spells as opposed to the standard-issue magic found in the Galbadia Military and such.

Yeah, that'd be a real kick to the crotch, proverbially speaking...Though I don't know if Seifer was still that interested in Rinoa, I think this supports my "adrenaline rush" theory. If your ex-girlfriend, your friend/rival, and your other acquaintance arrived solely to kick your ass, don't you think you'd be a bit tense? Though Seifer appeared calm on the outside, I really do think that his "fight or flight" instinct kicked in and helped him to defeat Odin.

To tell you the truth, I'm not really sure if that was actual speed. Seifer just kind of...stood in one position and let Odin cleave himself in half. At least that's what it looked like. If he were moving at supersonic speeds or something, you'd think his position would've...I dunno...changed just a bit. In fact, I'm not quite sure what Seifer does that results in Odin's death. It doesn't look like speed, anyway, considering he's in the exact same place after the "attack" as he was before it. Honestly, he didn't move so much as a millimeter. Unless Seifer has some sort of magical ability that causes his opponent to gravitate toward his Gunblade or something...

...Go ahead. Make a sex joke. I dare you. >.<

Anyway...

I feel it's worth noting that the Japanese characters that appear on the screen read something along the lines of "Zantetsuken Reverse." Maybe that technique was developed for the sole purpose of countering Zantetsuken. I'm not sure why Seifer would take the initiative to develop a technique for the sole purpose of countering Zantetsuken, but it's the only theory I've got at the moment. *shrug* Any ideas?

Well here’s my idea. Up to you if you want to subscribe to it.

If you want a real world explanation of why we don’t see Seifer move, it’s an in-battle scene on a Playstation 1 game. Graphical limitations.

From a more story perspective, look at the vid exactly


The crux of my point is that we don’t even see what happens to Odin. We see him charge at Seifer, than a flash, then he’s passed Seifer and is cut in two.

This is a somewhat common dramatic element I’ve seen in a few places. Here’s another example of it from the video game Tekken Tag Tournament



See how we see the two opponents charge and slash at one another but don’t see which one of them connected? They are actually passed each other and the suspense builds as the viewer wonders which one dealt the fatal blow.

I felt this was the effect they were going for in that scene with Odin; minus the fact Seifer didn’t appear to move.

Still speaking in story, there are plenty of times in fiction where characters don’t appear to move but that’s just because our eyes can’t follow. Citing DragoN Ball Z, there’s a very famous scene with Goku fighting the Ginyu Force. He is standing still to the rest of us but actually moving.

That’s just my theory on the whole shebang. Up to you all to decide.

As for Seifer’s Zantetsuken Reverse, I just view it as Seifer’s version of the Zantetsuken. He’s developed his own insta-kill move just like Odin or Yojimbo have. I don’t view it as specifically a counter for Odin’s move but that’s just me.

Also, literally translated, the characters mean “cutting iron sword” for Zantetsuken and for Seifer’s move, they add “return” or “reverse”.

Finally, Zantetsuken Reverse is a fan name from what I've seen. It's perfectly possible all Seifer actually did was a normal swipe with his gunblade and not some special technique. The kenji appear because they always appear when Odin slashes. But because this time it was Odin who got killed instead of the opponent, they added the "reverse" symbols.

You could very well say that it was graphical limitations that prevented them from accurately displaying his speed, but don't you think they could've at least shown him in a different position than the one he was in before the attack? I don't see why they'd have him remain perfectly still as Odin charges head-first into his blade. Besides, even if they wanted him to move at DBZ-like speeds, how difficult is it to portray Seifer disappearing from where he's standing and then reappearing in a different location? If he had moved at all, his arm would've at least changed its position to show that he'd slashed with his sword or something like that.

Your example from Tekken Tag Tournament is accurate in that it has been used many times in Japanese media, but the fact that, as you pointed out, Seifer didn't move is pretty significant. I mean, what could he possibly have done? What kind of finishing blow could he possibly have dealt that didn't involve any motion on his part? There was no reason for him to return to that exact same position after the attack, unless he wanted to psyche Squall and co. out with his "Magical Invisible Sword Strike" or something like that.

As for the "DBZ Speed" thing...I really doubt that Seifer could be moving that fast. Besides, that sort of "speed" doesn't make any sort of logical sense. Even if he traveled fast enough to leave an afterimage, it would only have lasted for about a split-second, at the most. I don't see how he could be moving around freely, yet still appear to be standing still for more than a few seconds. Even so, if he had Dragonball Z-level capabilities, I really don't think Squall and co. would've had a chance against him.

That's really what confuses me the most. Squall and co. are, physically speaking, not that much higher than "peak human" in terms of their own capabilities. Seifer was always portrayed the same way. In fact, he was weak enough for Squall to defeat in one-on-one combat not too long ago. I don't see how he could've suddenly upgraded to DBZ-level strength in such a short amount of time. What's more, I don't see how Squall and co. could've beaten such an opponent.

I suppose it's reasonable to assume that Seifer had just developed his own version of Zantetsuken, but it would have to have been slow enough for Squall and co. to evade in the first place. Seifer didn't seem like he had any intention to hold back, after all.