Zack vs. Cloud: Who's Stronger? - Page 9

March 28, 2008, 5:06 PM

Cloud, all though I hate to admit it, it would definately be cloud... you have to think Zack fought along side Sephiroth, he was merely anythin compared to him, Sephiroth was owning whilst Zack laid back and did majorly bad damage.

now, Cloud was serving underneath Zack, but then again, cloud did go on, get all that training and eventually (to my dissapointment) defeated Sephirtoh.

Short paragraphs explaining why cloud is the stronger being.

March 28, 2008, 5:30 PM

I'm really surprised at some of the arguments in this thread, like people who've never played Crisis Core trying to debate which character is stronger.

You can't even properly judge the characters without even knowing who they are and almost everything they've accomplished. It's really annoying seeing how badly Zack is being downplayed, despite his defeat of Angeal and Genesis, who could both take Sephiroth together fairly well.

Perhaps people aren't really understanding there are very few First Class SOLDIERs (No, they do not come in abundance. The only 1st Class SOLDIER operatives are Zack, Sephiroth, Angeal, and Genesis.), and Zack killed all the best operatives in SOLDIER besides Sephiroth. Cloud has probably never even touched such an intense battle and managed to hold his own - by himself.

Genesis and the Destruction of the Shinra Army were by far beyond Cloud's reach alone. Zack killed two of the Greatest SOLDIERs in their prime monstrous transformations, Genesis being as equally powerful as Bizzarro Sephiroth - if not stronger.

Zack killed Genesis in prime form, yet he was felled by an army of grunts. Obviously, there were a large number of those grunts, as he killed all but three, and as previously stated by Oathkeeper they had Air support - helicopters with Machine guns, rocket launchers, you name it.

March 28, 2008, 6:21 PM

I desagree, i think that the main problem here is that you consider all of Clouds acomplishements to be futile, either because he was teamming up or because his opponent was tired, or because his opponent was no trying.

Yet when it comes to Zack you praise every battle that he had, this shows serious favoritism.

Zack beats Angelis and Genesis, two top SOLDIERS, who might have been second and third best soldiers in the Shinra army, but who were never number one, as Sephiroth is considered to be the greatest SOLDIER that ever existed. Both of them together attack Sephiroth together and he blocks all of their attacks without much effort, then Genesis gets serious and attacks Sephiroth with full force, and yet all we see like in the Zack or Cloud duel with Sephiroth, is Sephiroth deflecting all of Genesis attacks, and finally when he attacks gains the advantage on Genesis, and finally Angelis stops the battle. Zack beats Genesis, it's an amazing acomplishement this makes Zack the 2nd best SOLDIER. Zack shows us yet again that he is indeed an elite fighter, by taking down an army before dying. Zack is incredible, he does all these amazing things...yet what he does not do is put up a good show against Sephiroth, in fact he got owned.

I agree with you Zack (the poster lol not the CC one) in all of your points, except for one, you say that Cloud alone as never "touched an intense battle" and hold himself on his own. This is pure denial in my opinion, how can you actually say that Cloud as never had battles like this!? AC...he fights Yazoo, Loz, Kadaj alone three times, he battles Kadaj one on one and defeats him, he battles a much more powerful Sephiroth who even not using his full power uses new skills that put him in advantage, that we never see when he fights with Zack, and this is in AC. In CC, Cloud is able to do what nobody else as done and that's resist Sephiroth, the man as a sword pierced through his chest and yet finds the streght alone to lift Sephiroth and sent him crashing.

How can you consider all of these not intense battles, equally if not more intense then anything Zack as encountered?

March 28, 2008, 6:33 PM

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I agree with you Zack (the poster lol not the CC one) in all of your points, except for one, you say that Cloud alone as never "touched an intense battle" and hold himself on his own. This is pure denial in my opinion, how can you actually say that Cloud as never had battles like this!? AC...he fights Yazoo, Loz, Kadaj alone three times

[
But not all of three at the same time, and the only battle that Yazoo and Loz battle as a team was in the battle near that City of Ancients (if I am correct and if I remember well) and Yazoo and Loz were actually pawning him two against one. Still we must count the factor that Cloud was affected by Geostigma, so that might have influenced that battle as well.

quote]he battles Kadaj one on one and defeats him,[/quote]

Kadaj was a fraction of Sephiroth, and also he was fighting Cloud while holding that box, so Kadaj was kind of busy trying to prevent Cloud from destroying "mother" (The Jenova Cells).

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he battles a much more powerful Sephiroth who even not using his full power uses new skills that put him in advantage, that we never see when he fights with Zack, and this is in AC.

Sephiroth just plays with Cloud and allows him to defeat him because Sephiroth clearly states constantly that his intention is not to kill him, but to make him suffer. Sephiroth just enjoys watching Cloud in pain, and he will live on forever fueled by Cloud's fears.

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In CC, Cloud is able to do what nobody else as done and that's resist Sephiroth, the man as a sword pierced through his chest and yet finds the streght alone to lift Sephiroth and sent him crashing.

Sephiroth wasn't paying Cloud that much attention. If Sephiroth ever decides to fight Cloud, seriously with the intentions to kill him, Cloud would lose. Also Cloud is the hero, so he is meant to win. Zack was removed from the storyline because he would probably steal Cloud's position as the leading character if he were still alive.

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How can you consider all of these not intense battles, equally if not more intense then anything Zack as encountered?

True, but Zack was not the protagonists (of the main original FFVII storyline), so his fights weren't influenced by the factor of being the leading man. Cloud wins because he is meant to win, or else FFVII would be a tragedy if Sephiroth kills Cloud, not to mention that it would drive thousands of fanboys/fangirls into madness.

March 28, 2008, 6:43 PM

No he also fights them on the highway, and near the entrance of Midgar despite the fact that he was on top of bike it does not mean that it can't be considered a fight.

Holding a box is not relevant enough, to justify the fact that Cloud defeated Kadaj, if Kadaj used two swords or something of that kind it would make a differance but he does not. Also Kadaj would not attack Cloud if he was more interested in protecting his "mother". Yet again this is just another excuse to minimize Clouds acomplishment.

I agree that Sephiroth was not giving Cloud enough credit, but that does not mean that he allowed Cloud to kill him, Sephiroth lost because he was too cocky and never expected Cloud to pull out such an amazing attack.

Cloud being the major character of course means that he as to be the one who pulls out the most amazing victories that's true, but it's not an excuse to justify all of his wins, Zack is also the main character of CC and yet loses to Sephiroth.

March 28, 2008, 6:56 PM

also - i haven't read all of the forum but i don' know if the point has been mentioned but developers state in the ultimania

Genesis = Sephiroth in terms of power

Zack is able to defeat Genesis and gives Sephiroth (who is pissed and wants Zack dead in as short time as possible - i.e he used 100% power) a good battle in which he is able to hold his own

Sephiroth in the Cloud match was overly arrogant and used a fraction of his ability and therefore lost - this being when cloud was with his numerous teammates - he also uses swordplay only aside for one instance in which the attack is not even directed att cloud

short post cos im on my ipod touch

March 28, 2008, 7:02 PM

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Originally Posted by Jimmy

No he also fights them on the highway, and near the entrance of Midgar despite the fact that he was on top of bike it does not mean that it can't be considered a fight.

Holding a box is not relevant enough, to justify the fact that Cloud defeated Kadaj, if Kadaj used two swords or something of that kind it would make a differance but he does not. Also Kadaj would not attack Cloud if he was more interested in protecting his "mother". Yet again this is just another excuse to minimize Clouds acomplishment.

I agree that Sephiroth was not giving Cloud enough credit, but that does not mean that he allowed Cloud to kill him, Sephiroth lost because he was too cocky and never expected Cloud to pull out such an amazing attack.

Cloud being the major character of course means that he as to be the one who pulls out the most amazing victories that's true, but it's not an excuse to justify all of his wins, Zack is also the main character of CC and yet loses to Sephiroth.

And this proves that Cloud wins because he is meant to win anyways. If it were real life, Cloud would never stand a chance one his own against a full power Sephiroth if Sephiroth stops playing with him and decides to get rid of him.

March 28, 2008, 7:07 PM

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Originally Posted by Jimmy

Yet when it comes to Zack you praise every battle that he had, this shows serious favoritism.

Not every battle. Every major battle.

Only Shinra Army vs Zack, Angeal, and Genesis.

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Zack beats Angeal and Genesis, two top SOLDIERS, who might have been second and third best soldiers in the Shinra army, but who were never number one, as Sephiroth is considered to be the greatest SOLDIER that ever existed.

Again...

Angeal and Genesis can both take on Sephiroth fairly. Also, you don't know what all-out is since you haven't played the game, as all-out as you described it is just a flashback of the past from Sephiroth's memory, sometime before Zack even made it into SOLDIER, probably since he described the setting as 'back then'.

All out is Genesis turning into his avatar form, and Angeal transforming himself into a monster.

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I agree with you Zack (the poster lol not the CC one) in all of your points, except for one, you say that Cloud alone as never "touched an intense battle" and hold himself on his own. This is pure denial in my opinion, how can you actually say that Cloud as never had battles like this!? AC...he fights Yazoo, Loz, Kadaj alone three times, he battles Kadaj one on one and defeats him, he battles a much more powerful Sephiroth who even not using his full power uses new skills that put him in advantage, that we never see when he fights with Zack, and this is in AC.

Yar, he did fight Yazoo, Loz, and Kadaj... but you'll have to forgive me as I completely discard AC for the pile of crap I think it to be. If it wasn't so animu, I'd probably count a lot more of Cloud into impressive feats, but it's just too crap to care about in the least imho.

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In CC, Cloud is able to do what nobody else as done and that's resist Sephiroth, the man as a sword pierced through his chest and yet finds the streght alone to lift Sephiroth and sent him crashing.

I was just about to get to that part, as it's really the only impressive thing I think Cloud has ever done.