either way Cloud loses points for originality. Zack was using a masive sword long before cloud

As lighting says.. Angeal Hewley was the very first to have the Buster sword. And it wasnt too long before, well if you dont count those 5 years they were trapped. But for actual usage wasnt too much.

And Cloud is has original as they come. who else has gravity defying hair like him? Zack's hair looks like Sonic's hair if anyone else notice. XD

Couple things here, Cloud didn't 'fail to get in' he never tried to make Soldier. For those of you who play CC...there's a scene where Zack is trudging through the mountains with a couple grunts and the lead turk but only Cloud manages to keep up. Which implies that he's tough enough to have made SOLDIER as Zack kinda recognizes him (I think Zack had made 1rst class by then)

Second, Zack was very freaking tough, tough enough to take down angeal and genesis, even genesis in his prime. He doesn't technically beat sephiroth however, according to the combat manual (that I haven't read so that makes this technically hearsay) Genesis and Sephiroth are of equal power...so Beating Genesis is like beating Sephiroth and theirfore Zack is just as strong as Cloud.

On the other hand, Zack did not respond to Jenova testing or mako testing (because he was already mako'ed) but Cloud DID respond to Mako AND received the last bit of Jenova Cells (although Zack busts him out before he can receive the final peices making Cloud a 'failed experiment'). The cells themselves kinda give him a boost in strength...

Its a toss up but honestly, I think Cloud 'becomes' stronger.

^ that's kinda the point of this thread.

Pinpointing when Cloud "becomes" stronger.

I´m agree with Fair_ Game. Cloud becomes stronger along the Final Fantasy history, like a classical hero.

Best Thread in a while. My two Favourite literary characters ever pitted against each other.

This is a difficult question because the last time you see cloud in action is AC two years after the main game and he was level 99 and pwned everyone, even sephiroth. However if zack was still alive would he be stronger then cloud? Or would it be Vice-Versa?

When Cloud and Zack were still buds their was no questioning it, cloud had virtually no fighting ability. Proof of this is the 3rd ranked soldiers were patheticly pathetic in CC and FFVII and cloud wasn't even strong enough to make it into that. Zack on the other hand was a genius fighter making it all the way to 1st Class all around the age of 16. So Zack's superiority at that time and point was undeniable. As we all know Zack dies and Cloud takes on his identity and becomes the hero in Final Fantasy VII. Im assuming that Cloud did not reach Zack's level until about late 2nd disk. Why so late? Well although Cloud was finally infused with mako, and gained all the enhancements that Zack, Angeal, Genesis, Hojo, and that other guy got, this doesnt mean he reached his level. Since zack is a genius lets say he's a "23", and since cloud is not lets say he's a "9". Now with mako infusion they both get a 75% bonus, so therefore zack is 40 and cloud is only 15, less then half.

So whatever Cloud gets motivation and hard work in, Goes through FFVII and AC and now he's a level 99 behemoth who beats the invincible Sephiroth twice, at this point technically he's stronger than Zack was when he was alive by a long shot, but clearly due to an unfair advantage called mortality. So it's a hard answer because yeah if Zack was alive and had years upon years to get stronger like cloud did, he would embarass Cloud even with his omnislash, However thats like saying "The Knicks" would be good if they didn't suck. So despite my prior ramblings Cloud is a better Specimen because Zack is dead.