Well I used to think Zack since he made it in SOLDIER and Cloud didnt.But now Im gonna have to say Cloud is stronger then Zack I mean Cloud defeated Sephiroth millions of times before and Zack only did like a few times.Plus Cloud has better limit breaks then Zack (in my opnion)and Cloud could defeat Zack without a problem.

Yes, thats true.

I believe Cloud is a better fighter seeing as he has defeated Sephiroth many, many time and Zack hasn't come close to killing him. He survived Sephiroth stabbing him and had enough power to throw him into the reactor. Zack was defeated easily by Sephiroth and told Cloud to finish him off aswell. =]

This thread is still alive after all this time...? Okay, that's it, Oathkeeper is coming out of retirement. *cracks knuckles*

Yeah, Omnislash is incredibly powerful, and, if Cloud pulls it off, he'd probably have a good shot at taking Zack out, but you're forgetting that Cloud needs to build up a significant amount of emotional turmoil to use the attack. He can't just use it at the beginning of the battle. His fight with Sephiroth showed that it essentially takes hours for him to charge up the spirit energy needed to perform an Omnislash, and that's under the most extreme circumstances. Cloud was gasping for breath before he used it, and he was up against Sephiroth, who he felt an extreme hatred towards. So, if Cloud could manage to get off an Omnislash, he could very well take this, but I honestly don't see how he could last that long against Zack.



Yeah, except you seem to be forgetting that, by the time Sephiroth even knew Cloud was there, Cloud had already cheapshotted him by stabbing him in the back with a sword that's as wide as he his. In other words, Cloud snuck up on Sephiroth at a time where he (Sephy) didn't think he was in any danger at all. If Seph knew Cloud was there from the beginning, he would've just flung the poor MP across the room...probably without even using his Masamune. I'm sorry, but the Nibelheim event can't be used as proof of Cloud's superiority given the circumstances.

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Yes, thats true. I believe Cloud is a better fighter seeing as he has defeated Sephiroth many, many time and Zack hasn't come close to killing him. He survived Sephiroth stabbing him and had enough power to throw him into the reactor. Zack was defeated easily by Sephiroth and told Cloud to finish him off aswell. =]

Let's take a look at this many, many victories Cloud has over Sephiroth. First of all, Cloud only encountered Sephiroth in a combat situation a total of three times, so I wouldn't call that "many, many times". Still, I see where you're coming from. Cloud did survive three encounters with Sephiroth, but none of them count as solid evidence of his superiority to Zack. Let's review:

Cloud vs. Sephiroth- Round 1- Nibelheim Reactor (Fight!): Sephiroth had just been through a fight against Zack, so already, he must be at least a little fatigued. Cloud runs up to Sephiroth from behind (as in, when Sephiroth isn't even looking or paying the slightest bit of attention) and stabs him through the torso with a sword as wide as he is. That's basically the mother of all cheapshots right there. Already, the odds are stacked unfairly in Cloud's favor. That's really all you need to discredit this fight. Sephiroth had been impaled with the fraggin' Buster Sword by the time he even knew he was in any danger. I admit, it's impressive for a lowly Shin-Ra MP to accomplish what Cloud did, but really, it can't be used as evidence.

Cloud (and AVALANCHE) vs. Sephiroth- Round 2- Lifestream (Fight!): Cloud had...Vincent, Yuffie, Tifa, Barret, Cid, Cait Sith, and Red XIII on his side. He didn't actually get to fight Sephiroth in a one-on-one duel until after Crisis AVALANCHE had finished beating the tar out of them through their superior numbers. Besides, the duel took place in the spirit realm. We have no idea if the circumstances were the same as they would've been if they'd been in the physical realm.

Cloud vs. Sephiroth- Round 3- The Ruins of Midgar (Fight!): This one is probably cited the most often as evidence of Cloud's superiority to Zack, but really, it's the most implausible. Sephiroth was barely even using a fraction of his power against Cloud. First off, Sephiroth was limiting himself to basic swordsmanship and flight. We know for a fact that, even in Crisis Core, he had a plethora of other abilities available to him: Laikiri (might be spelling that wrong), teleportation, and Octoslash, just to name a few. And that's not even taking into consideration the abilities he gained from his refreshing dip in the Lifestream: telekinesis, telepathy, and control over JENOVA Cells. Sephiroth didn't use any of his other abilities against Cloud, and even then, he had Cloud beat. I mean, even without taking into account his other abilities, he had a chance to kill Cloud and he didn't take it.

People seem to conveniently forget that, whereas Sephiroth never takes Cloud as a serious threat, he fought Zack with either all or most of his strength. Any abilities he had available to him he used against Zack, whereas he restricts himself to basic swordsmanship whenever he's seen fighting Cloud. I'm not saying that this is solid evidence of Zack's superiority, I'm just saying that you can't use their fights against Sephiroth as proof either way because of the different circumstances. I'm not even saying that I know for sure if Zack is superior. Honestly, I do think that Cloud is going to surpass Zack by the end of the FFVII Compilation, but as of now, there's just more evidence in Zack's favor.

I just have to say that I only saw the Last Order in Japanese with subtitles and i thought it was an okay anime but Before Crisis Core I never really gave much thought to Zack even though I knew what little information there was about him before there was CC. Back when there was just Final Fantasy 7 to go off of i was of course a huge fan of Cloud's. He was the main character and for the most part I mainly leveled him up along with a few choice characters while I never even touched any of the other ones. Yeah i went through the process of getting all the two other hidden characters but yet I use Vincent or Yuffie in any of the battles except when i had too for Yuffie.
Through out FF7 Cloud for the most part never battles any monsters by himself. He always has his friends backing him up. Yeah he has the cool limit breaks and his omnislash is really cool and does alot of damage but for the most part of the game he thinks he is a soldier first class. That was all just in his head. He was never a soldier first class to begin with. As for going against Sephiroth in a fair fight where both of them are going at it at their full strength im sorry to say but no matter how strong Cloud may be he would not win against him.
As far as AC is concerened even there he was doing his best to keep up with Sephiroth. He was out of breath by the end of the fight. Now if you keep close attention to the dialoge between the two you will notice that Sephiroth is clearly just playing with him and trying to torment him. Just by him asking what Cloud holds precious so that he can have the pleasure of taking it away from him.
As for Zack well like i said i was a huge Cloud fan before the arrival of CC. I did not know too much about him. When i first got the game, I only got it because it was part of the final fantasy 7 series. I already knew that he was going to die by the end of the game but through the process of playing it well I grew attached to the character though playing all of his battles, and watching him grow from a soldier second class to a first class soldier. He grew in power from the beginning of the game all the way to the very end where he dies.
I find it hard to compare these two characters and try to see who is the most powerful. They both are powerful warriors though i would have to say that Zack has more battle experience then cloud does. He was in Soldier so of course went on more missions and fought against powerful foes and did more training. Not to say that Cloud did not learn from all his battle experiences. If Zack did not die perhaps only time would tell which of the two warriors would be more powerful but only if that could be seen in the canon then for the most part it is only speculation and theory.
They were both great warriors in their own right but for me the main point is this. It seemed more like a passion of the torch if you add in the buster sword and being a hero. Starting with CC you have Zack as a second class soldier who is eager to become powerful and become a hero. He is under the mentorship of Angeal a powerful first class soldier who is the first owner of the buster sword. Angeal passes it down to Zack after he defeated him in his monster form. From that day forth Zack carried the sword till he died defending Clouds life. Before he died he passed on the sword to Cloud calling Cloud his living legacy. Thus he passed the tourch onto Cloud who would go on to become the main hero of the series. Zack could of easily became the main hero of the series himself but because he died to protect Cloud and passed on his sword to him it fell to Cloud to become the hero. Also if you notice between the two games Cloud and Zack both met Aeris the very same way by falling through the roof of the church. They may not of fought the same battles but they did some what know some of the same people. Aerith, Sephiroth, Tifa and of course Yuffie.
Being that Zack is dead it would only be a matter of time before Cloud surpassed him and become stronger than him because when your dead you are not going to be growing any stronger than you were when you died. What makes it some what hard to compare is CC occurred before the start of the main game FF7. Maybe the monsters just became more powerful than back in the CC days. You never know. The only way to know which was more powerful was to have a cannon fight between the two. Till then this is all just speculation and opinions.

Cloud is stronger cuz he killed sephiroth case closed.... no on else can kill sephiroth except Sora LOL!!!!!

Man, I thought we were past this stage of the argument...Anyway, as I said many times before, you can't use Cloud's victories over Sephiroth to prove his superiority to Zack. None of them were fair fights by any means. The scales were either significantly tipped in Cloud's favor, or Sephiroth just refused to take him seriously. However, when Zack fought against Sephiroth, Sephy used every bit of power- every single ability in his arsenal- against him. Iakiri, Octoslash, teleportation, everything currently at Sephiroth's disposal was used. Furthermore, it was a one-on-one duel with the odds stacked in neither one's favor. The fight was completely fair with both combatants giving it their all, yet Zack still put up a relatively impressive fight, given who he was up against.

Unfortunately, Cloud can't say the same. In his first encounter with Sephiroth, the man had already been through a fight with Zack, which must've fatigued him a little. Cloud then proceeded to run him through with the Buster Sword, which had a blade that was just about as large as Sephiroth was. So, after being impaled through the back, Sephiroth still manages to effortlessly fling Cloud away with only one hand holding his sword. He then proceeds to impale Cloud and lift him with one hand- again, I'd like to remind you that Sephiroth had already been impaled through the spine while his back was turned- when Cloud experiences a rush of frightened adrenaline and hurls the already-weakened Sephiroth into the Lifestream. First off, Cloud has the advantage of getting the mother of all cheapshots in on Sephiroth before he even knows that Cloud exists, then the advantage of surprising Sephiroth before he can simply let go of his sword.

In their next encounter, Cloud is aided by the entirety of Crisis AVALANCE. That's Cloud, Vincent, Tifa, Barret, Cid, Yuffie, Cait Sith, and Red XIII all beating on Sephiroth with all they've got. This is a grand total of eight powerful fighters against one. Obviously not a fair fight. Cloud only got to duel Sephiroth one-on-one after his body had been completely ripped to shreds. Had Cloud been alone throughout the entire battle, Bizarro Sephiroth alone would've destroyed him in a matter of minutes. Let's not even get started on Safer Sephiroth. It should go without saying, really. Sephiroth was the final boss of an RPG. Of course Cloud can't surpass him on his own. He needs the help of seven other people. Yes, I know that he and Vincent were easily the strongest members of Crisis AVALANCHE and probably did the majority of the heavy-hitting themselves, but having eight people flying around you swinging their weapons and throwing fireballs is a lot harder to deal with than having one man swinging his sword and throwing fireballs at you.

Last but not least is their duel in Advent Children. I've covered this many times before, so I'll try to make it brief. Sephiroth withholds every one of his abilities except for basic swordsmanship and flight. He wanted to prove that, even limiting himself to Cloud's level, he was still vastly superior. That means he didn't use telekinesis, teleportation, intangibility, Iakiri, Octaslash, Supernova, etc. All he did was swing his sword. Right off the bat we see that Sephiroth isn't even treating Cloud as a threat. He could simply rip him apart with telekinesis at any point during the battle, turn intangible so that Cloud's sword passes through him then become tangible again and slash him to ribbons, teleport around him and hit him when he least expects it, overwhelm him with Octaslash, Iakiri, or Supernova...The list goes on. The fact is, though