I'm Confused About Cloud - Page 2

November 14, 2007, 12:28 AM

Ooooooooooo, I love these questions. This will be a long read.

All right, first off, no he is NOT a clone. He does NOT have a # tattoo.

Allow me to clarify.

When Cloud was in Niblehiem, he did not reveal himself for who he was for certain reasons, but that's another story. He kept his identity secret until Sephiroth went mad and destroyed the town. Cloud followed him to the reactor where he saw Tifa attack Sephiroth and get badly injured. Cloud than attacked Sephiroth and stabbed him with Zack’s sword. He than ran back to check on Tifa. Sephiroth walked out and Cloud follows him. Sephiroth stabs him through the shoulder, however Cloud manages to throw him off the edge into the reactor. Cloud then passes out from the wound.

Now, if you've read the letter in Tifa's 'room' than this will all be very clear. Shinra soon showed up after Sephiroth had destroyed the town. Hojo ordered to have all the survivors rounded up for experimentation. This includes Cloud and Zack. Tifa, however, was rescued by her instructor and was saved. Anyways, the 'experiment' involves submerging the subject in Mako, which is very deadly.

You probably know all this, but I'll continue for the sake of those that don't. The Mako--Lifestream--is filled with the memories of the lives of people long dead, as it is the very spirit energy of hundreds of former lives, and is being recycled over and over. When immersed in Mako that spells bad news-- for thousands of memories of unknown lives is forced into a person's mind. It becomes nearly impossible to sort out one's own memories from the myriad different others that don't belong. If a person likes their life (Zack) then remembering who they are is not much of a problem. If a person doesn't like their life (Cloud) it's very easy to let go of what you don't want to be. This is how Cloud managed to confuse himself as being Zack. He lost his own identity and so created one for himself as something that he had always wanted to be: a member of SOLDEIR. He used Zack in particular because Zack always told him stories of SOLDEIR life.

Cloud however was fortunate, so to speak, in this aspect. You see, he had something to become, something to latch onto and a story to back it up. The other Sephiroth 'clones' didn't have this and so completely lost themselves; they lost their identity. Their minds were broken and so Sephiroth could easily control them. I'll get back to this later.

The other part of the experiment is injecting the subject with Jenova cells. Now keep in mind that Shinra wasn't trying to create a 'Sephiroth clone' but actually a clone of an Ancient. This is because the Shinra needed an Ancient to lead them to the Promised Land, which they thought was full of Mako. Shinra injected them with Jenova cells because they thought that Jenova was an Ancient, which couldn't be more wrong. Anyways.... The Jenova cells transform, if you will, the cells around them; a mutation. These mutations can incorporate some of Jenova's powers to a limited extent. One could call Cloud a mutant and that would be correct. The Mako submerging is required to weaken the mind and thus the body's defense. With the defenses down, the cells can move in and 'attack' the normal cells. This is why Zack didn't change whereas Cloud did, because Zack was able to throw off the effects of the Mako and his body responded to the Jenova cells and killed them.

However, this experiment was interrupted, otherwise it would have been successful. Zack managed to break out and free Cloud as well. And as you know, Zack was killed but Cloud was left to die.

Now I'll get back to the part about the controlling the 'clones'. It must be made clear that Sephiroth is half-Jenova, so to speak. He is a half alien. There is a particular trait about this alien that must be brought up. This alien species can control every single cell individually. Ever seen that movie 'The Thing'? Same situation. The alien can control every cell. This also allows it to change shape at will. Since Sephiroth is a 'member' of this alien species, he retains the same trait of being able to control all of his cells. Now, it must also be made clear that Jenova is thoroughly dead. However, Sephiroth can control the cells of his dead 'mother'. That includes the cells inside the 'clones'. So, Sephiroth was able to manipulate the cells inside the 'clones' and Cloud to make them do what he wants.
(the 'Sephiroth' you see in the game--it isn't actually THE Sephiroth. It's actually the body of Jenova that Sephiroth shape-changed to look like him. The real Sephiroth is actually diffused within the Lifestream.)

With the clones it would be easy, just control their minds. With Cloud it would be a little trickier. Sephiroth had to manipulate the already messed up memories Cloud has, to make him believe one thing or another. Namely, that he was nothing more than a clone and that he never had a name, etc. As you can imagine this would be a huge blow to Cloud and resulted in him giving the Black Materia to Sephiroth. However, the plunge into the Lifestream allowed Cloud, with Tifa's help, to find a memory of his own that wouldn’t be susceptible to corruption. Basically it was the memory of why Cloud went to join SOLDEIR, but like I said, that's another story. The truth is revealed and Cloud finds himself in the end.

There. It's finished. I hope this helped.

November 14, 2007, 4:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugen

I'd kick someone's ass if they told the ending of a game

especially a game like FF7.

Nice overview Moonchild

My buddy thought it would be fun to tell me how the first disc ended before I got there. I was not happy.

November 16, 2007, 2:05 PM

well he is a normal soldir and he tries to become as famous as separoth but doesnt make it if ya play the mission in his home town it makes u understand it

November 17, 2007, 11:57 PM

I know I didn't post the thread, but thank you so much dragon mage, it all makes sense now.

November 19, 2007, 10:00 PM

You're most welcome! It is my pleasure to help!

November 19, 2007, 11:17 PM

Quote:

My buddy thought it would be fun to tell me how the first disc ended before I got there. I was not happy.

I remember back when I was still going through the first disc and a friend of mine kept torturing me with cryptic messages about how it's going to end for Aeris. I swear, that was perhaps one of the most painful phases of my life!

Wait... actually, the most painful phase of my life was when this retarded guy I knew chose to get Ape Escape instead of Final Fantasy VII...

November 20, 2007, 9:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragon Mage

Ooooooooooo, I love these questions. This will be a long read.

All right, first off, no he is NOT a clone. He does NOT have a # tattoo.

Allow me to clarify.

When Cloud was in Niblehiem, he did not reveal himself for who he was for certain reasons, but that's another story. He kept his identity secret until Sephiroth went mad and destroyed the town. Cloud followed him to the reactor where he saw Tifa attack Sephiroth and get badly injured. Cloud than attacked Sephiroth and stabbed him with Zack’s sword. He than ran back to check on Tifa. Sephiroth walked out and Cloud follows him. Sephiroth stabs him through the shoulder, however Cloud manages to throw him off the edge into the reactor. Cloud then passes out from the wound.

Now, if you've read the letter in Tifa's 'room' than this will all be very clear. Shinra soon showed up after Sephiroth had destroyed the town. Hojo ordered to have all the survivors rounded up for experimentation. This includes Cloud and Zack. Tifa, however, was rescued by her instructor and was saved. Anyways, the 'experiment' involves submerging the subject in Mako, which is very deadly.

You probably know all this, but I'll continue for the sake of those that don't. The Mako--Lifestream--is filled with the memories of the lives of people long dead, as it is the very spirit energy of hundreds of former lives, and is being recycled over and over. When immersed in Mako that spells bad news-- for thousands of memories of unknown lives is forced into a person's mind. It becomes nearly impossible to sort out one's own memories from the myriad different others that don't belong. If a person likes their life (Zack) then remembering who they are is not much of a problem. If a person doesn't like their life (Cloud) it's very easy to let go of what you don't want to be. This is how Cloud managed to confuse himself as being Zack. He lost his own identity and so created one for himself as something that he had always wanted to be: a member of SOLDEIR. He used Zack in particular because Zack always told him stories of SOLDEIR life.

Cloud however was fortunate, so to speak, in this aspect. You see, he had something to become, something to latch onto and a story to back it up. The other Sephiroth 'clones' didn't have this and so completely lost themselves; they lost their identity. Their minds were broken and so Sephiroth could easily control them. I'll get back to this later.

The other part of the experiment is injecting the subject with Jenova cells. Now keep in mind that Shinra wasn't trying to create a 'Sephiroth clone' but actually a clone of an Ancient. This is because the Shinra needed an Ancient to lead them to the Promised Land, which they thought was full of Mako. Shinra injected them with Jenova cells because they thought that Jenova was an Ancient, which couldn't be more wrong. Anyways.... The Jenova cells transform, if you will, the cells around them; a mutation. These mutations can incorporate some of Jenova's powers to a limited extent. One could call Cloud a mutant and that would be correct. The Mako submerging is required to weaken the mind and thus the body's defense. With the defenses down, the cells can move in and 'attack' the normal cells. This is why Zack didn't change whereas Cloud did, because Zack was able to throw off the effects of the Mako and his body responded to the Jenova cells and killed them.

However, this experiment was interrupted, otherwise it would have been successful. Zack managed to break out and free Cloud as well. And as you know, Zack was killed but Cloud was left to die.

Now I'll get back to the part about the controlling the 'clones'. It must be made clear that Sephiroth is half-Jenova, so to speak. He is a half alien. There is a particular trait about this alien that must be brought up. This alien species can control every single cell individually. Ever seen that movie 'The Thing'? Same situation. The alien can control every cell. This also allows it to change shape at will. Since Sephiroth is a 'member' of this alien species, he retains the same trait of being able to control all of his cells. Now, it must also be made clear that Jenova is thoroughly dead. However, Sephiroth can control the cells of his dead 'mother'. That includes the cells inside the 'clones'. So, Sephiroth was able to manipulate the cells inside the 'clones' and Cloud to make them do what he wants.
(the 'Sephiroth' you see in the game--it isn't actually THE Sephiroth. It's actually the body of Jenova that Sephiroth shape-changed to look like him. The real Sephiroth is actually diffused within the Lifestream.)

With the clones it would be easy, just control their minds. With Cloud it would be a little trickier. Sephiroth had to manipulate the already messed up memories Cloud has, to make him believe one thing or another. Namely, that he was nothing more than a clone and that he never had a name, etc. As you can imagine this would be a huge blow to Cloud and resulted in him giving the Black Materia to Sephiroth. However, the plunge into the Lifestream allowed Cloud, with Tifa's help, to find a memory of his own that wouldn’t be susceptible to corruption. Basically it was the memory of why Cloud went to join SOLDEIR, but like I said, that's another story. The truth is revealed and Cloud finds himself in the end.

There. It's finished. I hope this helped.

Wow.... THat is a powerful story. I never follow details like that. Kudos to you!