I just thought of something

August 21, 2007, 4:09 AM

Alright well most everyone knows about Cloud and his real deal with SOLDIER. This may give a bit away so I will put it in spoiler tags. Cloud really wasn't in SOLDIER, he was really just a low guard that had Zack's memories infused into his brain. He didn't know that, so he thought he really was an EX-SOLDIER. Thinking he was one of them, he performed like one of them. You saw him in the beggining, he was performing missions like it was nothing, and he was beyond the skills of most of your teamates. So really, Cloud performed as an EX-SOLDIER even though he really wasn't because he thought he was. Anyone disagree or have anything to add?

August 21, 2007, 4:21 AM

I agree but not for the reason you impose. You are suggesting that because he was assuming the identity of someone else that it gave him strength because he thought he always had that strength as an ex-solder. In a way you are right... but what it really gave him was confidence. It's why the scene where Cloud throws Sephiroth into the lifestream is so important. Cloud always had the strength but he never had any confidence. Even as a child he was considered dorky and uncool. When he gained confidence in himself, he saw that he was really able to far surpass anyone else. He just never believed he could until he adopted someone else's personality traits who had a confident and almost egotistical personality.

August 21, 2007, 4:33 AM

The scene where Tifa and Cloud were at the well and he stated, "I'm going to be the greatest, just like Sephiroth..." or something along those lines, he seems pretty confident though. Going into it he must have seemed alright, then something must have blew his confidence out the door which made him goof up and become just a gunman. Then there was the ordeal where he thought he was Zack, there is his confidence again and he was doing anything like it was nothing. After he learned he was a "failed experiment" he was shocked. When he finnaly did push his memories away and defeated Sephiroth, I think he felt relieved, but the memories of him failing his SOLDIER test always haunted him. In Advent Children, even the bit in Dirge of Cerberus, he just didn't act right. He acted like he did AFTER he learned he was the failed experiment.

August 21, 2007, 4:59 AM

The game knocks you around like a pinball most of the time... but you do know that he was actually a successful experiment, right? That Hojo implanted Jenova and mako cells into many others as well but most of them had incredibly adverse affects to it, thus becoming the "Sephiroth clones". Hojo thought he failed but he didn't realize that the perfect mesh he'd been looking for did exist in Cloud. It also existed in Zack... but he was shot.

As for his aspirations as a kid, that's true for almost any child. Just because he talked big doesn't mean he actually had any confidence at all. My guess is he wanted that to happen more than anything in the world... but never really believed he could make it happen.

August 21, 2007, 5:22 AM

Well what I ment was when he was told that he was experimented on, it was too much for him to handle. That he was supposed to be another Sephiroth, that Cloud was never ment to be.

I think you're right about when he was a kid. It is every kids' thought to grow up and be a star. I always told myself I would be the starting center-fielder for the Yankees...haha yea right. I never new Zack had Jenova cells injected into his body. I somewhat rushed through the game because I bet my friend 10 bucks that I could beat it in 4 days. I'm going to replay it after I am done replaying X and Tactics. Was it thought that Zack had Jenova cells planted into him in that scene when Cloud and him are in the test tubes under Shinra Mansion? That is where Cloud got all messed up, is that when they put them into Zack as well? That wouldn't really make sence seeing how they shot him right afterwords, and Zack and Cloud would have had such a different reaction to it. Orrrrr was that scene when they put Zack's memories into Cloud's brain? Gahh I'm so confused.

August 21, 2007, 5:54 AM

Haha, don't feel bad. It's a confusing game.

Zack and Cloud are both exposed to mako and Jenova cells in the Shinra mansion basement. For Cloud it is the first time he has been exposed to either. For Zack, because all SOLDIERs are exposed to mako, the only new substance in his body is the Jenova cells. That is why Cloud is affected so badly and suffers Mako poisoning but Zack has very little adverse affects to the treatment. It's not too complicated when you remember that Zack is the only true SOLDIER there and was already exposed to mako treatments.

August 21, 2007, 6:00 AM

Ahh ok I think I have it now. Thanks. It is a shame how Zack died from a couple of bullet shots while Cloud survives Super-Nova from Sephiroth. Jeez just throw a freakin' pheonix down on him or something.

August 21, 2007, 6:05 AM

Heh yea, plot and all. But all I really have to say to that is this. lol And with that... I'm gonna let someone else come in here and start posting their two cents since we've done enough talking back and forth already. xD

August 21, 2007, 6:10 AM

Hahahah, thats going on my background. Yes well our talking back and forth got me confused, then cleared it all up again. It was worth it.

August 21, 2007, 11:04 PM

Yes, I have much to add!

When Cloud was in Niblehiem, he did not reveal himself for who he was for certain reasons, but that's another story. He kept his identity secret until Sephiroth went mad and destroyed the town. Cloud followed him to the reactor where he saw Tifa attack Sephiroth and get badly injured. Cloud than attacked Sephiroth and stabbed him with Zack’s sword. He than ran back to check on Tifa. Sephiroth walked out and Cloud follows him. Sephiroth stabs him through the shoulder, however Cloud manages to throw him off the edge into the reactor. Cloud then passes out from the wound.

Now, if you've read the letter in Tifa's 'room' than this will all be very clear. Shinra soon showed up after Sephiroth had destroyed the town. Hojo ordered to have all the survivors rounded up for experimentation. This includes Cloud and Zack. Tifa, however, was rescued by her instructor and was saved. Anyways, the 'experiment' involves submerging the subject in Mako, which is very deadly.

You probably know all this, but I'll continue for the sake of those that don't. The Mako--Lifestream--is filled with the memories of the lives of people long dead, as it is the very spirit energy of hundreds of former lives, and is being recycled over and over. When immersed in Mako that spells bad news-- for thousands of memories of unknown lives is forced into a person's mind. It becomes nearly impossible to sort out one's own memories from the myriad different others that don't belong. If a person likes their life (Zack) then remembering who they are is not much of a problem. If a person doesn't like their life (Cloud) it's very easy to let go of what you don't want to be. This is how Cloud managed to confuse himself as being Zack. He lost his own identity and so created one for himself as something that he had always wanted to be: a member of SOLDEIR. He used Zack in particular because Zack always told him stories of SOLDEIR life.

Cloud however was fortunate, so to speak, in this aspect. You see, he had something to become, something to latch onto and a story to back it up. The other Sephiroth 'clones' didn't have this and so completely lost themselves; they lost their identity. Their minds were broken and so Sephiroth could easily control them. I'll get back to this later.

The other part of the experiment is injecting the subject with Jenova cells. Now keep in mind that Shinra wasn't trying to create a 'Sephiroth clone' but actually a clone of an Ancient. This is because the Shinra needed an Ancient to lead them to the Promised Land, which they thought was full of Mako. Shinra injected them with Jenova cells because they thought that Jenova was an Ancient, which couldn't be more wrong. Anyways.... The Jenova cells transform, if you will, the cells around them; a mutation. These mutations can incorporate some of Jenova's powers to a limited extent. One could call Cloud a mutant and that would be correct. The Mako submerging is required to weaken the mind and thus the body's defense. With the defenses down, the cells can move in and 'attack' the normal cells. This is why Zack didn't change whereas Cloud did, because Zack was able to throw off the effects of the Mako and his body responded to the Jenova cells and killed them.

However, this experiment was interrupted, otherwise it would have been successful. Zack managed to break out and free Cloud as well. And as you know, Zack was killed but Cloud was left to die.

Now I'll get back to the part about the controlling the 'clones'. It must be made clear that Sephiroth is half-Jenova, so to speak. He is a half alien. There is a particular trait about this alien that must be brought up. This alien species can control every single cell individually. Ever seen that movie 'The Thing'? Same situation. The alien can control every cell. This also allows it to change shape at will. Since Sephiroth is a 'member' of this alien species, he retains the same trait of being able to control all of his cells. Now, it must also be made clear that Jenova is thoroughly dead. However, Sephiroth can control the cells of his dead 'mother'. That includes the cells inside the 'clones'. So, Sephiroth was able to manipulate the cells inside the 'clones' and Cloud to make them do what he wants.
(the 'Sephiroth' you see in the game--it isn't actually THE Sephiroth. It's actually the body of Jenova that Sephiroth shape-changed to look like him. The real Sephiroth is actually diffused within the Lifestream.)

With the clones it would be easy, just control their minds. With Cloud it would be a little trickier. Sephiroth had to manipulate the already messed up memories Cloud has, to make him