Ah, I see that we're accepting Advent Children into the cannon, despite the fact that it isn't a game and that it sucked butt royally.

Well, I don't take AC into account, because it isn't a game. It's a movie adaptation of what happened after the Meteor, but it isn't a sequal. Not in my opinion.

I believe that Rufus died in FFVII.

OK, it being "great" is your opinion. And it's completely up to ME if I want to include it in the mythos. It's not a video game, and was SUCH an afterthought that I don't have to consider it as a part of the FFVII story.

And as far as the game goes, we don't know if Rufus survived.

Yeah, like anybody could really believe that Rufus avoided WEAPON's attack. "Duck and cover" doesn't always work, mind you.

I never questioned the fact that Square was behind it. But my whole point is that in the game, it is made clear that Rufus and his crew dies.

LATER, for monetary purposes, the idiots at Square decided to make a movie, and brought Rufus back. It's all BS, in my opinion. It's validity as a continuation isn't in question--but I don't have to like it, or accept it.

TO ME...TO ME...IN MY OPINION...FFVII ends at the end of the game. Forever. That's how I want to remember it. And I'm not one of the idiotic fanboys who just drools over some half-assed piece of crap flick that was only made for them to jerk off to. It is complete garbage compared to the game, and the story is weak. Rufus should not have lived, Geostigma is stupid, and Cloud having a delivery service is pretty lame, too. Gunblades in FFVII just proves that they weren't trying to be true to the mythos, rather that they were just trying to be "cool".

The film sucked. The people who like it are generally the same people who want to see VII remade, as if it wasn't good enough the way it is.

There's a difference between a good movie and eye-candy. Fight scenes don't equate to a good movie - perhaps entertaining, but ultimately if they had no true plot value, then they don't say much about anything thematic. Otherwise people would win academy awards all the time for two-hours worth of car crashes and graphic sex.

Hardly anything in that movie really meant something. There was a bit of symbolism, intentional ambiguity, and the tone was consistent and developed... but just barely. The plot was nothing better than a wet dream for a FFVII fanboy.

I admit that the enjoyability of Advent Children comes down to a matter of opinion. That's fine. But as Eisprinz says, the movie wasn't really intended to be a "good movie" as much as it was intended to be a doped-up anime. It was masturbatory and hollow. That is a fact.

You obviously don't see Rufus dead, but why would you have to? Before you saw Advent Children, what would you have said Rufus' fate was? At the very, very least you would have to say that his death was strongly implied.

Well, what more do you want? The point was to show that the earth was stronger than the forces that tried to exploit it--namely, Shinra. And honestly, aside from showing a body, what more could they have done to show that he was dead?

Advent Children wasn't something they planned from the start. It was just a sign of Square's new approach to business. They wanted to capitalize on the success of the game, and so they finally appeased the fanboys by making a movie. If you asked them at the completion of FFVII, I doubt even the developers would have said Rufus survived.

That is an oxymoron, my friend. Popularity does not indicate quality. Loads of people liked N'Sync, too, but were they good? No, they were a creation of the industry, singing lyrics they didn't write, on tracks that are vocally-enchanced by computers.

Just because a bunch of people liked Advent Children does not mean it was a good movie.

If that's all they liked about the game, then they missed what made the game great: The story. Final Fantasy VII was the first game on the Playstation to tell an adult story with such depth, and make no mistakes along the way. Clearly, these characters have lasted longer in the fan's hearts than any other characters in gaming history, and if your buddies only liked it because of the fight scenes, I'm sorry that they missed the point.

The battle system reached its creative peak, and was executed to perfection, and the cinematic scenes in the game were top-notch and beautifully done. There was plenty to love about the game along with the story, but take the story out, and what have you got?

...come to think of it, you've got Advent Children!

[quote][You obviously dont know a good movie when you see one./QUOTE]

Let's not make this personal. Like I've already said, if you enjoyed the movie, that's wonderful. I'm glad for you, honestly. The most I've accused anyone who liked this movie of is of being the same breed who want to see a remake of the original game, and nothing else. If anything, poor taste is implied, but even then, it's all a matter of opinion.

I would lke to think I know quality when I see it. At the same time, I admit that I enjoy things that are hokey and cheezy just as much as anyone else. I like pro wrestling, and watch Kevin Smith movies, no matter how much they are critically hammered. But the difference is that I know when something I'm watching or playing is bad. I don't sugarcoat it or defend it by accusing others of not knowing good movies when they see them...

I own up to my corny tastes when the time comes. People who enjoy Advent Children need to do the same, and also need to understand the unqillingness of some to accept it as cannon. Some dismiss it as a shallow cash cow with no artistic value, and you guys need to understand that.