what? where are you getting this logic from? you need to explain a bit more to me, especially if you're basing your opinion on crisis core series or dirge of cerberus. (I haven't seen them so I'm basing my opinion on what I've seen of Cloud and Vincent in FF7 and Advent Children)

Ah. I apologize, then. Though, next time you take part in a Versus Topic, it usually helps to specify what materials you have access to.

In any case...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cZdWz35ebw

That's what Chaos Vincent is capable of.

yeah, he's pretty fast... faster than Cloud... and that's a big-ass laser beam that he's using..
okay, that match-up's a bit more even. The whole "hidden power within" thing about Vincent is cool, but I'm biased so Cloud would still beat him in my mind, maybe like when he beats Sephiroth in Advent Children.. he would say something like "Look behind you! It's Lucrecia!!" then OBLITERATE HIM WITH METEORAIN!!

Yes, it's most certainly true that, if they ever got into a fight in the storyline, Cloud would pretty much have to win because he's the primary protagonist of the Final Fantasy VII Compilation. However, this is a hypothetical situation, so again, Cloud's main character syndrome doesn't apply here. The fact remains, though, Cloud is the one with "hidden power within," when you think about it. His most devastating moves (Omnislash, Meteorain, Blade Beam) come into play later on in the fight, once he builds up enough emotion to use them. Vincent can use Chaos whenever he pleases, which is why he'll come out on top. If Cloud could use Omnislash or Meteorain at any given moment, then it'd be quite a bit closer, but he wouldn't be able to use either of them until a ways into the battle. I really don't think he could last that long against someone who moves faster than the eye can trace and fires hugeass lasers from his gun.

ok look vincent and cloud are both equal in the games so lets put an end to this big debate for now besides cloud is not afraid of hurting his friends as him and sephiroth were friends together and cloud was there to see hi go insane and vincent although he has a game based on him he would MAYBE harm a friend but i never know so please just leave it at that and sephiroth was a moron who was very powerful but he beleived jenova was his mother he was genetically breeded in a freezer with jenova cells so he is nuts

honestly i have to agree with Aerith cloud has done more in the games than vincent but it is not realy a easy desicion to make as they are in a way equal but they are also different as cloud is always destroying all the jenova "children" even though they are born in freezers (as you find out towards begining of the game) so if you think about it cloud is better but it realy isn't up to us to decide anyway all characters are equal EXCEPT the main character which in this DEBATE IS CLOUD who has an awesome bike which i want cuz it holds all his swords they all are amazing "do you think i could buy copies of them?" i know i couldn't but no harm in asking is there

like I said, Cloud rules. And what's all this nonsense about "Vincent can use Chaos whenever he wants"? Since when? Last time I checked, Chaos was Vincent's final Limit Break. In the game FF7. Where he CAME FROM. And you build that up in exactly the same way as Cloud's. I don't think you can reason like that until maybe Cloud has his own solo endeavour like Vincent, in which case he'd be able to do a lot more.

That'd make sense, except, in Dirge of Cerberus, Vincent can and does activate Chaos at will, and at times when he hasn't been building up anger. When it comes to Vincent, the Limit Meter doesn't apply because, within the context of DoC, he proves that he can activate his own Limit Breaks whenever he pleases. However, Cloud has shown himself incapable of using Limit Breaks at any time other than during intense battles. The ones he used were Braver, Blade Beam, Climhazzard, and Omnislash, and all of them were used in the middle of intense battles. On the other hand, Vincent has used Chaos in cutscenes during which he wasn't even fighting.

There's really no way anyone can justify Cloud overpowering Vincent. No, they aren't equal. Vincent is stronger because he has access to Chaos. Everything Cloud can do, Vincent can do and then some. He has, while in his Chaos form, shown himself to be vastly superior to Cloud in terms of speed, strength, agility, durability, and the arsenal he has at his disposal. If you don't believe me, refer to the Chaos vs. Omega battle. How, exactly, is Cloud supposed to keep up with someone who can move and attack at such high velocities? The simple answer is that he can't. For as fast as Cloud is, he isn't anywhere near that quick.

Even assuming that Cloud does have time to mount a defense, he would still be destroyed by Chaos Vincent's vastly superior strength and arsenal. CV kept up with and eventually defeated Omega Weiss. Need I remind you that Weiss, in his Base Form, soundly defeated Rosso and Azul in their strongest forms? Omega Weiss is even stronger, yet Chaos Vincent still defeated him in a battle of physical strength. Cloud had trouble defeating Rosso on her own in her own Base Form. There's no way he could even hope to keep up with Omega Weiss even in melee combat, which also means that he'd have no chance against Chaos Vincent.

What you all fail to realize is that Vincent doesn't just move that fast, he fights at that speed, too. Vincent and Weiss are able to charge at each other at such velocities, yet they clash each time. That proves that the two of them are able to manipulate themselves with amazing precision, even while traveling faster than the eye can trace. In other words, Vincent can do much more than simply travel in a straight line. Cloud would quickly find himself overwhelmed and promptly defeated, considering he wouldn't even be able to see Vincent's attacks coming.

Furthermore, Vincent doesn't even have to take Cloud on in melee combat. Remember that superior speed of his? He [Vincent] can simply warp a large distance from Cloud and blast him from afar with that hugeass laser of his. Though he can deflect bullets without too much trouble, I somehow doubt Cloud would be able to keep up with a barrage of super lasers fired at him by someone who can move close to the speed of light.

To recap, there is absolutely no way Cloud could win this fight. Chaos Vincent is superior to him in all forms of combat, and has no apparent flaw that Cloud could easily exploit like he does against Sephiroth. Whether we're talking about melee combat, long-ranged combat, or all-out combat, Chaos Vincent would emerge victorious, probably without any visible effort. To say that Cloud would win or even bring the fight to a draw is nothing more than blatant fanboyism. Never in FF7, Advent Children, or DoC has he shown himself capable of keeping up with that kind of speed, strength, and agility. The only time he faced someone as strong as Chaos Vincent (probably VERY slightly stronger) was his duel with Sephiroth in AC, and he was overwhelmed very quickly. Hell, Sephiroth wasn't even trying and he still owned Cloud. The only reason he lost is because he was an arrogant ass. Something tells me Vincent- Mr. Low Self Esteem- wouldn't have that problem.

so basically, what you're saying is that Chaos Vincent vs. Cloud would be like the dbz characters VS my cat, completely pointless. See, thing is, I posted in this thread because it's called "Vincent VS Cloud".

doesn't say anything about spin-offs, which I don't touch with a ten-foot pole.