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Not that I was trying to hide my identity to start with, but yes, you must be quite proud of yourself for having made that little connection. I like this nick a lot better than I do HD. ^^
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Proud? Not really. Not of something as trivial as making a connection based on matching key points. No more than forensics would be to match two fingerprints.
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Cloud's awkwardness is certainly not an aspect of Zack...is it?
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No, but it's also not mentioned until After the big reveal that Aerith was primary focusing on the Zack-y parts of Cloud's adopted Persona.
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I need quotes and details on what these 'unique' traits are.
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The narrator tells us this is what Aerith considers make Cloud Unique. The majority of these settle into the lifestream and call forth Zack, who thinks she is recalling him based on those concepts.
Add to that that Cloud is canonically adopting Zack's persona all throughout the time Aerith knew him.
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Forgive me, but you'll have to point out the rejection. I see a bandying about and a pointing out of a flaw, not a rejection. I mean, there's not even a set of ellipses in there.
"But whenever you feel lonely, call me Aerith."
"Only if I get really lonely. Goodnight, Zacks."
While it's not a total and outright rejection, it's more of a negative reply than a positive one. It's what a woman would say to a dear friend when she doesn't want his feelings hurt. It's certainly not the type of a reply a woman would give to a man she's digging romantically.
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Again, it assumes she's being serious for this one line, when the rest of her conversation with Zack was fond and playful. Heck, it was more akin to flirty banter than anything she shared with Cloud, for freak's sake.
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I need quotes. Not sure what you're referring to.
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"She saw him as someone full of confidence, cool and had the impression that he would disappear in an instant if she took her eyes off him."
For one.
That what she thought made the 'real' Cloud 'unique' woke up her dead boyfriend whose life Cloud had been emulating, for two.
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I really didn't think much of that, especially since their relationship never got to the point where she actually did meet his parents. Meh, Zack never even got to telling his parents who she was. Again their relationship was a light taste of first love. What more proof do you need?
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Context. Which CC will provide. No intended slight to Benny, but he's not part of the FFVII inner circle as it were, and if they or a game contradicts what he writes in Maiden, then Maiden loses in that regards.
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I need something to back that up.
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She actually knew Zack as he really was when she was alive and had a genuine relationship with him. Neither is true with regards to Cloud, and she kept focusing on the Shadow of Her and Zack, to the pointing of trying to cram herself into a copy of that old relationship in her interactions with ZaCloud.
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Aerith was clearly saying that while she saw similarities between the two men at first, they're not the same. Seems to me like most of your arguments revolve around the idea that Aerith's words shouldn't be trusted. What reason do you have for not trusting her words?
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The fact that her words are later proven to be wrong by the passage where most of what she thinks make Cloud Unique turns out to be Emulated Zackery.
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Also, the narrator has already given us the facts...so why not just accept them? Zack was Aerith's light taste of first love and is now a dear friend to her. She loves Cloud more than her first love. There shouldn't be any arguments.
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Except that the 'Cloud' she thought she loved was a cipher of said first love. Cloud was lying to himself about who he was, and Aerith got wrapped up in that too.
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...guess I'm still waiting for you to name those 'unique' traits that Aerith loves so much about Cloud which had been emulated from Zack.
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Have you not read Maiden? Aerith tries to think of what defined the 'real' Cloud, and thinks of things that in her words made him unique. Most of these settle into the lifestream and awaken Zack who thinks she was thinking of him.
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Since we're on the topic, and if you ask me, Tifa isn't all that special. Anyone who had been there with Clould in his childhood would have had knowledge of his past and could have restored him.
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Possibly, though the question of whether or not Cloud would have let anyone else in is unlikely. I mean, Zack who knew about Cloud long before the Nibleheim incident couldn't do it either.
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I really don't know what all the fuss is about or why people are gloating that Aerith didn't restore Cloud. I don't think anyone was expecting her to.
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Uh, who's gloating that she didn't? Though as for expecting, the dead being walking Deus Ex's is not without precedent.
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Wasn't it optional whether Cloud heard Tifa calling him or not? I was pretty sure it was.
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Nope. While the exact line differs between versions, Cloud hears her in both versions. That, however, is less important than his calling to hers.
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Where does it say that she sees them as a couple? Is Aerith not allowed to look at two people without it meaning she is seeing them as a couple? O.o
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Not by the standards of English or Japanese, no, since when one smiles on a two people, they are a couple, or a pair, or a what have you. It doesn't always include all the connotations, but two people together are a couple, to get literal about the whole mess.
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It wasn't total outright rejection, but LIKE that of a rejection...not that it makes that much of a difference. More negative than positive is what I'm getting at.
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And yet she kept the boy around for two years after that. Guess she got really lonely then.
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Doesn't matter to me how Tifa saw Cloud. Maybe she's lying...
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To? No really, who would she be lying to in the narration while looking at a scene of Cloud, Denzel, and Marlene gathered around the table?
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Cloud saw himself like a young father where? Cloud saw himself as father and Tifa as mother of the family where?
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Irrelevant, since I never said anything of the sort.
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Again, SE tells us Cloud is like a big kid himself...so.... *shrugs*
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Cloud is like a big kid in some respects. Not all.
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I was referring to Cloud's feelings for Tifa...which is unclear as always. If he was confused about her question, obviously, he could not have given us an answer to that question. Is it made clear whether Cloud loves Tifa or not? Of course not.
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He didn't give her an answer to that question. He gave an answer to the question she asked after the first one. And yes, it is made clear. She is the subject of his tender memories, of his secret wish. It was her specifically that he wanted to notice him. She and the children are the ones precious to him that he leaves to protect. It is her opinions that are important above all others.
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The facts have been laid out in MoTP that Aerith loves Cloud more than her first love and that Zack is now a dear friend to her. To keep arguing and to ignore the answers that have already been dished out to us is to waste time.
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It is also laid out in MOTP that the 'Cloud' she loved was a cipher comprised of traits he emulated from Zack with the abilities of Jenova. At best you can argue that she didn't love either man, but rather an accumulation of traits comprising the third 'person' Zacloud, since she doesn't love Zack, but was too focused on the Zacklike traits of Zacloud to really get to know Cloud as he really was.
