Final Fantasy Forums

Welcome to Final Fantasy Forums, a community where you can discuss your love for all things Final Fantasy. Just go ahead and register for a free account. Community features:
  • The Shoutbox chat system
  • Free arcade
  • An active RPG system powered by Inferno (members may join after 50 posts)
  • Over 15,000 threads and 300,000 posts, and thousands of visitors each day
Go ahead and sign up today. After signing up, you can introduce yourself in the introductions forum.
  
Go Back   Final Fantasy Forums > Farplane > Zanarkand Ruins > Gaia Archive
Reload this Page Objective reasoning in conflicts
 
Gaia Archive Archive of old threads from the Gaia section of the board.

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Objective reasoning in conflicts
Old September 30, 2007, 6:09 PM   #1
Banned
Adamant is on a distinguished road
Class: Banned
Level: 0
HP: 0/0
/ (0%) / (0%)
MP: 0/0
/ (0%) / (0%)
EXP: 0
/100 (0%) /100 (0%)
 
Join Date: October 2006
Location: Nowhere near Scotland
Posts: 862
Threads: 92
Gil: 0
Member No.: 655
Rep Power: 0
Objective reasoning in conflicts

The essential principles of objective reasoning, as I see it, are the following-

1. Free will and selflessness cannot coexist.
2. All human decisions are made with the purpose of creating positive stimuli and preventing negative stimuli.


I come to this conclusion in a few ways. All human actions, regardless of morality or common sense behind them, can be broken down into a chain of risk/reward tradeoffs. For example, students don't just do their homework "because they feel like it". They (generally) do it because consistently doing homework can eventually lead to better shelter, more access to food, and an increase in positive emotions which in turn helps their chance of survival. Similarly, people who drive the speed limit don't do it just because "people should do it"- it's usually done to prevent negative stimuli such as going to jail, which would harm their ability to reproduce, gather food and defend themselves.

Even acts of seeming selflessness, such as donating to charity or returning that $20 bill you found on the street to it's owner, can easily be explained through this chain of instinctual logic. If you keep the $20 bill, you could have fear that if you get caught, you would get arrested, which would cause the negative stimuli as described in the last paragraph. Combined with the positive emotions and the possible increase in social status and protection that would result from giving back the money, one could logically assume that the possible reward of giving back the money is worth the risk and is therefore the best decision to make. Of course, not everyone would give back the $20 bill. This is because some people would assume that the risk of being caught don't outweigh the rewards of having an extra $20 to spend, and vice-versa. Knowing this, we can make a third basic rule of objective reasoning- that people have unique personalities because they have different opinions about the amount of positive or negative stimuli created by certain actions.

Obvious arguments to this theory are examples in nature of animals acting suicidally or contrary to logical reasoning. Certain breeds of prairie dogs have been shown to call out to the rest of their pack when they detect a predator such as an eagle or hawk. This diverts the predator's attention, which not only warns their fellow prairie dogs, but decreases the likely hood that a large number of them would get eaten instead of just the one that called out. Obviously, the high risk of death resulting from this is greater than any positive stimuli that could possibly occur from gaining the attention of a predator. Therefore, this would be a "selfless" act which would defy the logic explained in the beginning of this post.

My counter-argument is that 1. The negative stimuli that would result from a prairie dog failing to alert the pack (being responsible for the death of dozens of your species) would be so enormous that it could justify a relatively quick and painless death, and 2. This is not an example of free will since this action (drawing the attention of the predator) is a predictable result of negative stimuli that will occur regardless of how much help drawing the attention of the predator will actually be to the rest of the pack. Arguing that this example defies objective reasoning is similar to saying that the body defies objective reasoning when cells become cancerous and divide uncontrollably. There isn't a thought process there- it's just something that happens in nature that we have to deal with in our lives.

When taken from a purely objective point of view, many famous generals and politicians of all different sides seem to have a very similar thought process when it comes to making decisions. Who is to say that both General Eisenhower and Hitler both commanded troops because they believed that the reward of winning a war (a high position of power which would lead to much easier access to things needed for survival) would greatly outweigh the risks (being assassinated or captured by enemy troops)? And what, then, caused them to wage war other than the allied leaders trying to prevent the negative stimuli (loss of political influence) that they believed would result from Hitler dominating all of Europe? "Moral courage" and "universal brotherhood" were not key factors in either general's decision-making process. In fact, morality as a whole is simply a risk/reward decision based on what I described above: would it really be worth it to give something up for the possibility of increased social status or monetary reward?

I am convinced that a purely objective thought process should be used for conflicts where people believe that their opposing solutions are both best for the group. For example, if one person wants to color the background of a forum red and another person wants to color it blue, both people should not only write their opinions but also write their thought process starting with the action, following with what they believe will be the results of that action, and ending in how it will personally benefit themselves. A simplified example is shown below:

-If we color the forum red...
-More people will join, since more people like the color red...
-The increase in people would increase the average person's popularity on the forum...
-This would cause people to associate my decisions with increases in popularity...
-...which would increase my social status in the forum

This would not only show what's good about your opinion, but WHY YOU ARE STATING YOUR OPINION IN THE FIRST PLACE. This is critical. Differing solutions would then be judged primarily on the thought process their sponsors had behind them, not by a convoluted thought process thought up on the spot to try to figure out how a particular solution would best benefit the voter. Decisions could be made much more quickly and with less personal conflict, and it would be possible to compromise since each side would know exactly what the other person wants to result from a decision instead of just what he wants to do.

I propose using this method in large conflicts where both sides seem to be at an unbreakable impasse. It would really help speed things up and make debates quicker and more civilized.
Scan Adamant Adamant is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Go to the top of the page
 



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump
 


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:32 PM.

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2006 - 2007 Final Fantasy Forums. All Rights Reserved.
SEO by vBSEO 3.1.0 ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Affiliates
Final Fantasy Forums - Affiliates Final Fantasy Forums - Affiliates
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373