Classism and socio-economic inequality.

May 22, 2008, 10:05 PM

First off, I am aware that topics like this can be highly controversial.

We all know that different people have different incomes. Some have really obscene salaries, some have average, some have subsistence-level pay. People tend to be divided into socio-economic classes relating to their income, skills, and style.

Is this guy prejudiced, and just plain "unfairly" discriminatory?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/7414311.stm

Is it justified to say such things?

May 22, 2008, 10:19 PM

Ugh, if you ask me, Mr Charlton there is absolutely ridiculous. =/ Uh-huh, because we all know that no matter how much poor folk try to learn, no amount of studying or general knowledge will sink in because we require bath-loads of cash to buy brains.

I'm going to use my sister as an example here, who got an unconditional offer at St Andrew's Uni, which is the top in the country, and top university in Britain after Oxbridge. I mean, Prince William went there for crying out loud! >_> And where is she from? Lochgelly... and for those of you who don't know that town (all of you bar one or two >>) it is, according to The Times, the 'Cheapest place to live in Britain'. And my dad grew up here too, and he has an IQ of 166! M'hmm, 'Dr Charlton' reeeaaally knows his stuff, I tell ya. *rolls eyes*

May 22, 2008, 10:21 PM

Wtf? That's a load of crap. Sure, some "working class" people are retards, but I've worked with plenty who aren't dumb. I've seen plenty of managers at fast food places and grocery stores who've chosen it as their career, and they don't seem like they're any less smart than I am.

Not to mention the IQ test itself isn't an accurate measure of intelligence. It doesn't take into account things like learning disabilities, and some people are really smart but just crack under the pressure of tests. Would an IQ test show that? No, it would just call them dumb.

(and no, I'm not butthurt about a low IQ score, I got 123)

May 22, 2008, 10:22 PM

No, he's not prejudiced. This annoys me already.

Quote:

Working class people have lower IQs than those from wealthy backgrounds and should not expect to win places at top universities, an academic has claimed.

Quote:

"Yet in all this debate a simple and vital fact has been missed: higher social classes have a significantly higher average IQ than lower social classes."

These two points are quite different. The title of that news report suggests that there's absolutely no chance they'd be allowed into Universities, while the direct quote says nothing of the sort. Your IQ doesn't really reflect your learning capabilities - ANYONE can read a book, take information from it and write it down.

Besides, if it's a statistical fact, then it's hardly prejudice.

Universities don't exclude you because of your background - they exclude you if your grades don't match what they're looking for, or if there've been too many applicants and they've had to whittle down numbers.

As for the actual topic ... I'm not saying it's a brilliant thing to come out with, when the press are involved, but it does seem to be the trend. I'm not, for one minute, suggesting that anyone who comes from a less-wealthy background is thick, or incapable, or anything like that. However, from anything I've seen, in and around school, the trend goes that those who are not particularly wealthy tend to do worse and/or leave school to go straight to the workplace. As I say, though, it's only a trend - it's not a strict rule. There're plenty of others, whom I know to be much less wealthy than others in the school, who have stuck on and are doing brilliantly. There's just less of them.

Hell, I'm hardly from a rich family myself - with my dad as the only source of income for the family, I'm not particularly rich. Currently, I'm in high school, studying the highest attainable levels for my year for every subject.

I have a feeling I'll have to re-word something in the course of this thread. Let me know if you've taken something from this that's any more controversial than the topic at hand.

May 22, 2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottish Dave

However, from anything I've seen, in and around school, the trend goes that those who are not particularly wealthy tend to do worse and/or leave school to go straight to the workplace.

Yes, that's true, but this is probably the worst part of the article:

Quote:

Working class people have lower IQs than those from wealthy backgrounds and should not expect to win places at top universities

When you say something like that, you're essentially saying "why bother applying? you won't get in, there's no point." Not a good message to be sending to kids in poorer schools. Plus, there's a large chance that someone could see that statement and become disillusioned from it, or just write off trying hard in school. "Well the statistics say I won't get into uni, so why should I bother?"

People need to be more careful when choosing their words. Instead of saying poor people shouldn't expect to get in, they should have said something like "will have to work harder to get in." It's much less depressing.

May 22, 2008, 10:58 PM

Im right at the bottom of the social rung I think

Doesn't mean Im not gunna try to do something with myself....at some point. People just seem to write us off when we come from poor backgrounds.

My mate did shiiite at school and she's studying for nursing at the moment and plans to go on to university, she is a single parent and just as skint as I am.

Sure it's harder when you come from this kind of background but it doesn't give that stuck up git the right to say we shouldn't expect to make anything of ourselves because we won't get anywhere

May 23, 2008, 12:06 AM

Bah! If I got my hands on him, I'd kick him in the ass and send him straight back to wherever he came from.

I don't know about you guys but where I am growing up, a lot of kids coming from working class backgrounds are much smarter than the rich foo's. In fact, here, children from struggling families are more likely to be accepted in a good university.

It's unfair what that guy said bec. if you did come from that background, you'd be very discouraged and possibly give up. Money is never really a factor in being successful(lol, you dont even need to go uni) all it takes is hardwork. For all the working classes out there, Fight-O!

May 23, 2008, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BalambFish

It's unfair what that guy said bec. if you did come from that background, you'd be very discouraged and possibly give up.

Exactly. People are already gonna be discouraged enough as is, but if they see some crap like that, chances are high that they'll just say the hell with it.

Quote:

Money is never really a factor in being successful(lol, you dont even need to go uni) all it takes is hardwork.

I've seen alot of rich yuppies in Nashville who just dick around in school and don't take it seriously. Why? Cuz their parents are rich and they all get nice sports cars from mommy and daddy and don't need to work for anything. Plus mommy and daddy usually have connections and can find them a job whether or not they dick around in school.

Often times its the lower class people who make the better students because they're used to working hard and have more motivation to make a better life. Perfect example is Dr. Ben Carson. He was a poor black kid, had it really hard growing up, but he tried his absolute hardest in school and his mom encouraged him alot...today he's a leading neurosurgeon. Being low class certainly didn't give him a low IQ. His autobiography is actually really interesting and pretty inspiring, if anybody is bored enough to read.

May 23, 2008, 5:15 AM

I think his premise is accurate to an extent. Untill he states that lower socio-economic groups are inherently stupidier than the upper classes. Which is of course wrong. Richer people have access to better educations that the poor. Which is why they are smarter, but they are naturally smarter, it is a consequence of their class.

However it is so much harder for poor people to advance their life. Only those who are gifted at sports and music can get out of their economic station. Some through sheer hardwork and intelligence can get degrees and get jobs with large salaries. But, the vast majority can simply not afford to. Either their parents can't afford for them to go to uni, or they have to work to support their families.