The Wolf - Page 5

November 9, 2008, 2:45 PM

ahh... my brother everytime he watches ff7 ac he never shuts up about it! well personally i think it represents cloud's lonliness... but i don't know... i should contact who made it and ask... lol, like he'd ever reply!

November 10, 2008, 8:09 AM

I remmember reading the wolf is a symbole of the lonliness of CLoud loosing both zakc and aerith but i reckon at the same time the Wolf is also Zack aswell.. i guess we will not really know..

My Youtube · December 8, 2008, 10:30 PM

Uhh, I swear it was there to show Cloud's guilt? Like the guilt he has over Aerith and Zack's death.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

December 9, 2008, 1:21 AM

It is a symbol of Cloud's guilt and loneliness. While it is perfectly understandable to think that it represents Zack given where it first appeared, it represents Cloud's guilt and subsequent alienation from those who make him happy. Once the guilt is lifted, his loneliness can vanish, and he can return to the source of his happiness- his life as part of the 'family of four' with Tifa, Denzel and Marlene.

My Youtube · December 9, 2008, 2:20 AM

No man, I swear the wolf solely represents Cloud's guilt, not his lonliness.
And it's a party of five by the way, Barret is Marlene's dad.

five is company :Barret, Marlene, Tifa, Denzel, and Cloud.
btw Cloud does care about all of his friends, Not just "the four".
So how can anyone say they are the only ones that matter to him?

December 9, 2008, 2:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by California Babe W V

No man, I swear the wolf solely represents Cloud's guilt, not his lonliness.
And it's a party of five by the way, Barret is Marlene's dad.

five is company :Barret, Marlene, Tifa, Denzel, and Cloud.
btw Cloud does care about all of his friends, Not just "the four".
So how can anyone say they are the only ones that matter to him?

Barret is not and has not ever been included in the family unit as described by the creators. It was a family of three (Cloud, Tifa, Marlene) and Denzel made four. If you wish to call it a family of 5, find evidence that SE has ever included him as part of the nuclear family that it speaks of when it refers to the family of 4. In short, take it up with SE, not me.

And no one has ever said that Cloud doesn't care about his friends. I do not even know where this remark originates. My comments about how he can return to the source of his happiness, return to 'those precious to him' now that his guilt is gone and his self imposed exile is over certainly do not preclude his caring about his other friends, but the other friends are not the ones he is worried about.

The Wolf is guilt and loneliness. The two are not mutually exclusive. Especially as it's Cloud's happiness which leads to his guilt which leads to his withdrawl.

December 9, 2008, 2:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by California Babe W V

No man, I swear the wolf solely represents Cloud's guilt, not his lonliness.

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree. Cloud was not only guilty over Zack and Aerith's death, but also scared of ruining the happiness he had with his family, which is why he left them in AC.

And I agree with what was said about Barret---> He's more in the friends category. Barret had other things to do, and left Marlene in Cloud and Tifa's care.

My Youtube · December 10, 2008, 1:59 AM

Quote:

Barret is not and has not ever been included in the family unit as described by the creators. It was a family of three (Cloud, Tifa, Marlene) and Denzel made four. If you wish to call it a family of 5, find evidence that SE has ever included him as part of the nuclear family that it speaks of when it refers to the family of 4. In short, take it up with SE, not me.

Not like I don't believe you or anything, but do you happen to have that quote? I think I kinda remember something like that too, but I can't seem to think of where I heard it at. So I'd love to see a quote.

In the 10th Anniversary Ultimania it states that Barret runs to help in the crisis of his friends and family in AC when the city of Edge came under attack by the SHM. Doesn't this show that Barret is apart of the family?
Or does Barret have an other family we don't know of?

Not to mention, Tifa states in CoT that the family is made up of friends.
Barret is under the friend category just like Cloud, Marlene is his daughter, and Marlene is apart of the "family of four", so doesn't that automatically include Barret?
Or did Barret let Tifa legally adopt Marlene?

Quote:

My comments about how he can return to the source of his happiness, return to 'those precious to him' now that his guilt is gone and his self imposed exile is over certainly do not preclude his caring about his other friends, but the other friends are not the ones he is worried about.

Ok, to you, what allows Cloud's guilt to lift exactly?
Because I know that the only time I can remember Nomura speaking of Cloud's guilt lifting is when Aerith is the one to lift his guilt.

"The incredible guilt Cloud feels because of what happened to Aerith can only be lifted by forgiveness from Aerith herself." ~Nojima, Reunion Files

Cloud’s desire for forgiveness is focused on Aerith alone, not his best friend who died to save him, or the fact that Cloud could have felt happy with Barret, Tifa, and the kids.

So where do you guys get the idea that Cloud being happy is the main source for Cloud's guilt?

"Those precious to him" mean all of his friends, not just Tifa and the kids.
Doesn't Cloud say in AC that there isn't a thing he doesn't cherish?
And whats got Cloud so worried about Tifa and the kids? What exactly is Cloud so worried about?

Quote:

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree. Cloud was not only guilty over Zack and Aerith's death, but also scared of ruining the happiness he had with his family, which is why he left them in AC.

Ok, I understand you two obviously think differently then me. I'm not going to try and force what I believe onto you both. And I'm not going to argue my points either, you two won't agree anyway.
Not to mention I don't feel like going back and forth with this right now.

I just happen to believe that the wolf only represents guilt. That's all I ever heard it compared to at least.
And even *if* the wolf is there because Cloud felt guilty over being happy, what exactly does that mean?

I'd like to know exactly what was stated in the 10th Anniversary Ultimania about Cloud leaving. What exactly did it say?"

Quote:

And I agree with what was said about Barret---> He's more in the friends category. Barret had other things to do, and left Marlene in Cloud and Tifa's care.

But I will speak on this.
Barret says that he left Marlene with Tifa, he never says he left Marlene in both Tifa and Cloud's care.
Barret: "I left Marlene with Tifa. Since she's taken to her and all."- CoB

Umm, But again, I haven't really read any of the novella's in a while so I could be wrong about this. So will you please give me a quote where it says Barret left Marlene in Tifa and Cloud's care?

To me, this quote from Case of Tifa shows that Barret is apart of the family, in any way you'd like him to be.
Barret: "Keep the family together and keep at it!" - CoB

One more thing that could prove Barret is considered to be apart of the family, is that right after Barret leaves in CoT, this paragraph is said:

"Friends were a necessity to me so that I could live on without being suppressed by the sins in my consciousness. Even if they were fellow companions that had the same wounds. Even if they were fellow companions who were burdened with the same sins. We couldn't live without comforting each other and encouraging each other.
Maybe you could call that family. We just had to keep the family together and do our best."

The only people Tifa talks of and compares to a family is her companions and friends, and that just happens to include Barret, and every single other member apart of AVALANCHE.

Sorry if there are any mistakes in my post, I'm in a hurry.

TTYN </3

December 10, 2008, 2:21 AM

Well, I'll let Ryu answer the top half which I am sure he will.

As for what you quote me on, I will respond.

Quote:

I just happen to believe that the wolf only represents guilt. That's all I ever heard it compared to at least.
And even *if* the wolf is there because Cloud felt guilty over being happy, what exactly does that mean?

Right. My point is that you thinking that Cloud's wolf represents only guilt, is false information. You are allowed to believe that if you want though, I'm not stopping you. .. but I believe you did say: "Correct me if I'm wrong." And *if* the wolf is there because he felt guilty over being happy, it means that not only Zack and Aerith are the ones that he is guilty over.

Quote:

I'd like to know exactly what was stated in the 10th Anniversary Ultimania about Cloud leaving. What exactly did it say?"

Since you are so adamant about having exact quotes, here is what is said about it:

"Quote: text near picture of Seventh Heaven, Cloud and Tifa
The more he realizes how happy he is living with Tifa and the children, the more the fear of losing that and regrets toward the past trouble Cloud..."

As for wanting a quote about Barret leaving Marlene with both Cloud and Tifa:

Quote:

Early next morning, Barret setoff.

Behind him Marlene shouted, "Send me some letters! Phone too!"

Barret raised his artificial right arm up that had a machine gun attached to it. He kept walking without looking back. It was the back of a figure who had no other way to live than to fight.

I wonder just what kind of life he will find. I prayed that he would be able to stay far away from war. Not just take. I prayed he would be able to prove that he could give too.

"Make sure you be a "nice" kid!"

Cloud and Tifa glanced at each other, as they heard Barret's words. Be a "nice" kid?

"I'll take care of Cloud and Tifa!"

Barret turned round and shouted, "Take care!" His voice was a little shaky.

"Keep the family together and keep at it!"

And about that last part, 'keep the family together and keep at it', How do you know he's not referring to the Cloud+Tifa+Marlene family? If he's leaving, he's obviously referring to those three.

Quote:

TTYN </3

Talk to me never? Well aren't you just bursting with intelligence. ;D Anyhow, if you understood Tifa's character more, perhaps you'd recognize what she meant in that quote you gave me. Her friends are very important to her, and they are separate from her personal family. The Ultimania makes that quite clear. :/

Quote:

Quote: text near images of Tifa in the church with Marlene and smiling at her
I want to see Cloud -- Marlene's honest words, which reflected what Tifa felt in her own heart, caused her to smile. The present Tifa isn't just Cloud's childhood friend, but also the mother of the family they were forming in Edge.

Quote:

AC - Edge~Midgar
With the help of his friends, he defeated Bahamut SHIN, which Kadaj's gang had summoned. He defeated Sephiroth after his Advent, and returned to Tifa and the children.

Notice how Tifa and the kids are seperate from the friends category.

Edit:
Btw, I am not following you around this Forum. I have better things to do with my life. Thanks for the accusation, though. It made me giggle. ;D